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Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

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DOC said:
Well here is a complete sentence by Thomas Arnold and also Simon Greenleaf.

From the website: "The Resurrection of Jesus: Fact or Fiction" by Dr. Terry Watkins

"Professor Thomas Arnold, former chair of history at Oxford, and author of the famous volumes, History of Rome, was skillfully educated in the study of historical facts. Professor Arnold, stated:

"I have been used for many years to study the histories of other times, and to examine and weigh the evidence of those who have written about them, and I know of no one fact in the history of mankind which is PROVED BY BETTER AND FULLER EVIDENCE of every sort, than the great sign which God has given us that Christ died and rose again from the dead."

"Dr. Greenleaf, the Royal Professor of Law at Harvard University, was one of the greatest legal minds that ever lived. He wrote the famous legal volume entitled, A Treatise on the Law of Evidence, considered by many the greatest legal volume ever written. Dr. Simon Greenleaf believed the Resurrection of Jesus Christ was a hoax. And he determined, once and for all, to expose the "myth" of the Resurrection. After thoroughly examining the evidence for the resurrection — Dr. Greenleaf came to the exact opposite conclusion! He wrote a book entitled, An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the Rules of Evidence Administered in the Courts of Justice. In which he emphatically stated:

"it was IMPOSSIBLE that the apostles could have persisted in affirming the truths they had narrated, had not JESUS CHRIST ACTUALLY RISEN FROM THE DEAD, . . ."
(Simon Greenleaf, An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the Rules of Evidence Administered in the Courts of Justice, p.29)."

http://www.av1611.org/resur.html
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These two men say there is plenty evidence. So far you have not brought anything remotely credible to the table that can be considered evidence that the NT writers told the truth.

Why are you hiding all this evidence for us? Do you not want to convince us?
 
Fitter said:
Do you believe this also DOC? Do you honestly believe that from the start of history being recorded through until Arnold made this statement that not a single event has more evidence than the resurrection? Not the American Revolution, the coronation of Queen Victoria or the French Revolution and the rise of Napoleon. Do you believe that none of these have as much evidence as the resurrection?
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Thomas Arnold (of Oxford) wrote a 3 volume book on the history of Rome. His statement was:

"I know of no one fact in the history of mankind which is PROVED BY BETTER AND FULLER EVIDENCE of every sort, than the great sign which God has given us that Christ died and rose again from the dead."

The man said what he said, I can't prove him wrong in his statement.

The only historical evidence I know of the American Revolution is what I've read in a few history books. I've read 27 books of the New Testament, and I know at least 42 US Presidents have claimed to be Christian. To be honest I've read more historical evidence for Christ than I have for the American Revolution..

ETA: And I cannot remember reading any eyewitnesses to the American Revolution that specifically talked about the American Revolution. I doubt if any of the history books I've read that talked about the Amer. Rev. were written by eyewitnesses to it.
 
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DOC said:
I know at least 42 US Presidents have claimed to be Christian.
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Which one(s) didn't?

To be honest I've read more historical evidence for Christ than I have for the American Revolution..
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Really? In that case, I'm surprised you've even heard about The American Revolution. Do you know where it happened? Either that, or you're holding back on us and have a mountain of evidence relevant to this thread that you've yet to present.

Admitting the deficiencies in your education is the first step; what do you propose to do about it?
 
DOC said:
Thomas Arnold (of Oxford) wrote a 3 volume book on the history of Rome. His statement was:

"I know of no one fact in the history of mankind which is PROVED BY BETTER AND FULLER EVIDENCE of every sort, than the great sign which God has given us that Christ died and rose again from the dead."


The man said what he said, I can't prove him wrong in his statement.
Click to expand...


That's the most disingenuous, nay, blatantly dishonest, post that I've ever read on this Forum. It's a disgrace, and if you think in any way that it represents the thoughts of honest and sincere christians then there is little hope that your words will ever find acceptance on either side of the theological fence.

What utter nonsense.


DOC said:
The only historical evidence I know of the American Revolution is what I've read in a few history books. I've read 27 books of the New Testament, and I know at least 42 US Presidents have claimed to be Christian. To be honest I've read more historical evidence for Christ than I have for the American Revolution..
Click to expand...


And again,, these words are an absolute disgrace.


DOC said:
ETA: And I cannot remember reading any eyewitnesses to the American Revolution that specifically talked about the American Revolution.
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And that is nothing more than an outright lie.
 
Akhenaten said:
That's the most disingenuous, nay, blatantly dishonest, post that I've ever read on this Forum. It's a disgrace, and if you think in any way that it represents the thoughts of honest and sincere christians then there is little hope that your words will ever find acceptance on either side of the theological fence.

What utter nonsense.





And again,, these words are an absolute disgrace.





And that is nothing more than an outright lie.
Click to expand...

Your unexplained opinions have been noted.
 
DOC said:
Well here is a complete sentence by Thomas Arnold and also Simon Greenleaf.

From the website: "The Resurrection of Jesus: Fact or Fiction" by Dr. Terry Watkins

"Professor Thomas Arnold, former chair of history at Oxford, and author of the famous volumes, History of Rome, was skillfully educated in the study of historical facts. Professor Arnold, stated:

"I have been used for many years to study the histories of other times, and to examine and weigh the evidence of those who have written about them, and I know of no one fact in the history of mankind which is PROVED BY BETTER AND FULLER EVIDENCE of every sort, than the great sign which God has given us that Christ died and rose again from the dead."
Click to expand...


So, it's not just before Jesus' time, it is all event in history before Arnold's writing?
Maybe, depending on when in his life -presumably late after senility had set in- including the birth of freaking photography?

That's mind blowingly false and wrong. That's just plain not making sense.



"Dr. Greenleaf, the Royal Professor of Law at Harvard University, was one of the greatest legal minds that ever lived. He wrote the famous legal volume entitled, A Treatise on the Law of Evidence, considered by many the greatest legal volume ever written. Dr. Simon Greenleaf believed the Resurrection of Jesus Christ was a hoax. And he determined, once and for all, to expose the "myth" of the Resurrection. After thoroughly examining the evidence for the resurrection — Dr. Greenleaf came to the exact opposite conclusion! He wrote a book entitled, An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the Rules of Evidence Administered in the Courts of Justice. In which he emphatically stated:

"it was IMPOSSIBLE that the apostles could have persisted in affirming the truths they had narrated, had not JESUS CHRIST ACTUALLY RISEN FROM THE DEAD, . . ."
(Simon Greenleaf, An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the Rules of Evidence Administered in the Courts of Justice, p.29)."

http://www.av1611.org/resur.html
Click to expand...


Same here, as he the quote does not explain why Greenleaf says so, it is pretty useless it ends up being an appeal to Greenleaf's authority...

In which case, I counter your Greenleaf with Einstein, Darwin, Jefferson, Tesla, Franklin, Marx, Camus and Sartre (for a start). All among considered among the brightest minds in the history of mankind, all whose fame and impact on mankind absolutely dwarf anything Greenleaf would ever dream to achieve, all of which never found any argument particularly compelling about Jesus' divinity.


I know you avoid long posts and I know you ignore the points you don't think you can refute, so you might very well ignore this one too like you ignored my last one, dealing with quite the same BS.
But really, let me point out how annoying it is and insulting to the posters that made the effort and dedicated time to answer your drivel and it is a very clear example of your dishonesty.
 
DOC said:
I can't remember, there might have been one who never claimed to be a Christian, but I can't remember who it was, if indeed there was one.
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:jaw-dropp If this is an example of the research you are prepared to do to back up your claims, it is no surprise that this thread continues to entirely lack any evidence whatsoever that would speak to the truth of the events in the NT.
 
zooterkin said:
Really? In that case, I'm surprised you've even heard about The American Revolution.

Do you know where it happened?
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I know where some books that were not written by eyewitnesses said it happened. And you have probably gotten most of your info about it from authors who never witnessed it.

Whereas I have brought in evidence that apostles who were eyewitnesses to the life of Christ - Matthew and John - wrote the accounts that have been attributed to them for 2000 years.
 
DOC said:
I can't remember, there might have been one who never claimed to be a Christian, but I can't remember who it was, if indeed there was one.
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You aren't actually capable of presenting evidence for anything, are you?

If you were to posit that the Sun will rise tomorrow, many people would begin to doubt it.
 
Akhenaten said:
And your disgraceful post has been nominated for a language award, in order that it will reach a wider audience.
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It is appreciated, it was a hilarious read. :D

(any thoughts on why the Union Jack look so funny in the colonies)
 
DOC said:
I know where some books that were not written by eyewitnesses said it happened. And you have probably gotten most of your info about it from authors who never witnessed it.
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On what do you base this outrageous accusation?


DOC said:
Whereas I have brought in evidence that apostles who were eyewitnesses to the life of Christ - Matthew and John - wrote the accounts that have been attributed to them for 2000 years.
Click to expand...


You have done no such thing. This post is complete falsehood.

I thought christians weren't supposed to do that.
 
Toke said:
It is appreciated, it was a hilarious read. :D

(any thoughts on why the Union Jack look so funny in the colonies)
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Well, in the case of Australia and New Zealand, being that we're in the bottom (good) half, the Union Jack would appear to be upside down to an observer in space.

Also, the colours clash with the Ochre of Australia and the Jade of Aotearoa.

:)
 
zooterkin said:
Do you truly believe there have been no advances in the study of history since the time of Thomas Arnold?


Have you deliberately ignored this post by Waterman?
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Akhenaten said:
Never mind wasting your time answering a lightweight like me with your rubbish.

Respond to this, another fine Waterman post which you appear to be studiously avoiding.

Cat got your tongue, has it?
Click to expand...


Did you miss these two posts, DOC?
 
DOC said:
Whereas I have brought in evidence that apostles who were eyewitnesses to the life of Christ - Matthew and John - wrote the accounts that have been attributed to them for 2000 years.
Click to expand...

Akhenaten said:
You have done no such thing. This post is complete falsehood.

I thought christians weren't supposed to do that.
Click to expand...

Of course this is false, just like it was false when Pax said the same thing many months ago.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4633623#post4633623

ETA: Excuse me Pax did not say the same thing, he falsely called me a liar. You just said my post was a falsehood.
 
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DOC said:
Thomas Arnold (of Oxford) wrote a 3 volume book on the history of Rome. His statement was:

"I know of no one fact in the history of mankind which is PROVED BY BETTER AND FULLER EVIDENCE of every sort, than the great sign which God has given us that Christ died and rose again from the dead."

The man said what he said, I can't prove him wrong in his statement.

The only historical evidence I know of the American Revolution is what I've read in a few history books. I've read 27 books of the New Testament, and I know at least 42 US Presidents have claimed to be Christian. To be honest I've read more historical evidence for Christ than I have for the American Revolution..

ETA: And I cannot remember reading any eyewitnesses to the American Revolution that specifically talked about the American Revolution. I doubt if any of the history books I've read that talked about the Amer. Rev. were written by eyewitnesses to it.
Click to expand...


How; I see, you were raised by a pack of otters, that does explain your lack or education, it's fine then and congratulation on learning how to type... But, please, try to acquire an elementary school level education before posting, it will save everybody's time and spare you some embarrassment, ok?


We actually have, many, journals and diaries (written during the facts) of people witnessing or even participating in the events. It really was quite fashionable at the time compared to today.

We also have memoirsand autobiographies, written after the fact but by confirmed witnesses.

We also have many, many letters written at that time and referencing the events.

We also have a lot of Newspapers in many countries.

We have official documents and transcripts (like, minutes from meetings and such).

We also have artifacts and archaeological evidences.


No evidences? If you are purposely trying not to see them, maybe... Well, no, not even then... you are probably lying once more.
 
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DOC said:
Thomas Arnold (of Oxford) wrote a 3 volume book on the history of Rome. His statement was:

"I know of no one fact in the history of mankind which is PROVED BY BETTER AND FULLER EVIDENCE of every sort, than the great sign which God has given us that Christ died and rose again from the dead."
Click to expand...
Ouit of interest, What is the "great sign" god gave us for which so much evidence exisits.
 
Lothian said:
Ouit of interest, What is the "great sign" god gave us for which so much evidence exisits.
Click to expand...



Heidelberg.jpg
 
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