What about this crop circle?

[Elizabeth I]

It's my understanding that farmers occasionally take advantage of being out in the middle of a big field to relieve themselves, when they feel the necessity to do so.

 

[Fnord]

It's my understanding that farmers occasionally take advantage of being out in the middle of a big field to relieve themselves, when they feel the necessity to do so.

Well, if bears do it in the woods, then it only stands to reason than farmers do it in their fields.

But does the pope do it in the Vatican?

 

[learner]

Limbo.
All of these loistical problems that you see being a problem to explain, realy dont need explaining (although they can be). Man made crop circles exist. The logistical problems were surmounted. We know this because Man made crop circles exist.

 

[Rolfe]

I don't believe it's possible to descend by bicycle from the Aonach Mor top station to road level in a couple of minutes.

Except, serious mountain bikers do it. I have to accept it's possible because they do it in broad daylight and make no secret of it.

But supposing it was a covert activity and a big secret, and they wouldn't do this while observed. All the evidence I have is timed CCTV footage of them starting off, and then again at the finish.

Is it more reasonable to believe they're remarkably skilled on these bicycles, more skilled than I could really imagine?

Or that they're actually teleporting?

Rolfe.

 

[Fnord]

Limbo.
All of these logistical problems that you see being a problem to explain, really don't need explaining (although they can be). Man made crop circles exist. The logistical problems were surmounted. We know this because Man made crop circles exist.

.
I'm with you.

Why posit an extra-terrestrial agent for something proven to be man-made? Why suppose a paranormal ability is at work when mere muscle is sufficient for the task? Why isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?

Because reality is too pedestrian for the mind that has deemed itself superior to all others. For such a mind, truth is insufficient without the embellishment of lies to justify its self-proclaimed superiority. For without a framework of lies to raise itself above the rest of us, such a mind would be forced to slither in ignorance upon the ground until it had struggled to evolve far enough to be considered merely equal to those of us that have already done so. Such a repugnancy as evolution, however, is also well beneath the pride and willful ignorance of the superior mind.

But as for me, I'll content myself to sit comfortably in my back yard, sip my tea, and watch as a group of ordinary humans perpetrate a hoax with nothing more than lengths of string, bits of wood, and a carefully-choreographed plan to commit an act of vandalism upon some unsuspecting farmer's field.

 

[Cuddles]

Cars can be parked anywhere from half a mile away to actually in the field

Or even much further. Assuming you actually use a car in the first place. For example, I used to actually live on a farm. 30 minutes walk could easily take me to one of at least 5 or 6 other farms, maybe as many as 10. Cycle instead and I could get to plenty more. Of course, most of those farms contained mainly cows and horses, which are rather difficult to make circles in, but I assume people in other areas would have a similar situation with more circle-friendly crops.

Now I think about it, I'm not even sure why I mentioned that I used to live on a farm. I currently live in an apartment block and have many more farms, growing genuine crops made out of plants, within easy walking or cycling distance.

Gotta pick a location.

A nearby field. Gosh, that was difficult.

Gotta pick a design.

Have a look somewhere like b3ta.com (generally rather nsfw) or deviantart. Hell, try the Louvre. You may be surprised just how good people are at coming up with designs.

Or you could always just go with a circle. No school like the old school.

Gotta get the tools.

String, plank of wood. That was tricky.

Gotta go there, do it

No ****, Sherlock.

and clean up.

Clean what up? The crops? The string and plank of wood? What exactly do you think these people are doing that's so messy?

Gotta mind the little things. Water

Because bottles are so hard to come by these days.

toiletries

Most circle makers probably aren't that concerned about taking their makeup with them.

parking

Parking legs and bikes really isn't that difficult. Or you could just, you know, park at the side of the road or in a layby.

Can't mind the weather, though. Rain and mud don't concern circlemakers.

Have you ever actually been outside? Seriously, from the kind of things you suggest are problems, it seems as though you can never have engaged in any outdoor activities at all. Most people aren't scared of a bit of rain and mud. I've spent weeks wandering around the countryside in all kinds of weather, with nothing other than what I could carry with me in a rucksack. People don't melt if they get wet.

Or they could just, you know, wait for a dry day.

On one hand we have amateur circlemakers sneaking around illegally. On the other hand we have professionals and a media event and permission from the land owner. I think it's worth while examining any differences between these two in light of crop circle characteristics.

Why? What do you think you would get out of such an examination? On the one hand, you have crop circles made by humans. On the other hand, you have crop circles made by humans. Where exactly do you think your magic is going to show up if you could actually be bothered to do any of your own research?

 

[Fnord]

Somehow, Cuddles, I'm reminded of what Foghorn Leghorn once said...

"Don't - I say, don't bother me with facts, son; I done already made up my mind!"

Should be somebody's sig line, doncha think?

 

[Stray Cat]

Apart from the notion of crapping in a bag or having a porta-potty at a covert circle location being funny, it has no place in the quest for truth about crop circles.... no really it doesn't

There is no night in the UK summer (when the crop circles are being made) which has 14 hours of darkness, so no one has to work for that amount of time. Most of the anonymous designs are done in 4 or 5 hours, some well within that time. If someone has the runs, maybe they take the night off, for the rest of us adults with fully controllable bodily functions, it's really not even an issue. Even cigarette stubs go the pockets and are carried away, so circlemakers are hardy likely to leave a big human dump in the field.

The 14 hours quoted for the Shredded Wheat crop circle is a non comparison, that was done under supervision, with the farmer's full permission and darkness and secrecy was not an issue (it was done in 14 hours of daylight). Just like with any other job, regular rest breaks could be taken and facilities were provided.

Last year National Geographic filmed this one being made:

It was made in darkness in 4 hours. National Geographic not only had portable toilets on site, but also full catering facilities and mobile film/sound editing truck. Of course it was done with the permission of the farmer so again secrecy was not an issue. It was still reported on some websites as a 'genuine'* event.


* 'Genuine' to croppies means non human for some odd reason only known to them.

 

[Rolfe]

I don't know why you would need to confine yourself to the hours of darkness anyway. The sun may be up at 3.30am, but not many people are!

Rolfe.

 

[Stray Cat]

Just a thought. What happened to the early "cereologists" who were serious academics convinced the early circles could be explained by natural phenomena such as vertical whirlwinds?

Terrence Meaden was the main "weather did it" guy. When the circles became too complex for him to crowbar his theories into, he packed up and moved on.

These were the guys who cracked me up most. If there was one thing for sure even then, it was that the circles were deliberate constructs made by intelligent beings. Myself, I looked round at the planet we know about populated by enormous numbers of intelligent beings, and decided there was no mystery. Thesse guys, however, seemed compelled to take a different line against the tide of credulity following the things....

The other two original crop circle 'experts' were Pat Delgado (who died last year after an illness) and Colin Andrews, who eventually started to realise that there was a massive human element to it all and he moved to America to join the UFO lecture circuit (apparently after a Wiltshire Meeting with Stephen Greer!). He has since made a reappearance (maybe the UFO circuit in the states isn't the gravy train he expected) and does run a website that seems to report urban legend type stuff as fact (some of it including crop circle related bits) that is all presented in his unique, badly written illogical ambiguity with plenty of promises of 'jam tomorrow'.

I'd love to know how they backed down from their research projects when the circles got complex enough to defy any naturalistic explanation.

Rolfe.

None have ever gone down in a blaze of glory, they just seem to slip quietly out of the scene. Sometimes if one of them upon discovering the truth, decides to speak out about what they've found out, they are character assassinated by the High Order of Croppies and of course, they must have been paid off by the Evil Gummint.

Funny to note that several crop circle researchers (bleevers) have turned into circlemakers but no circlemaker has ever turned into a bleever.

 

[Stray Cat]

I don't know why you would need to confine yourself to the hours of darkness anyway. The sun may be up at 3.30am, but not many people are!
Rolfe.

Depends were abouts you are circlemaking I guess. There are some places in the hot spots in Wiltshire where there are 'spotters' on the hills, looking for first signs of fresh crop circles. You don't want to be in the field when it's getting light because of this.

 

[Rolfe]

Terrence Meaden was the main "weather did it" guy. When the circles became too complex for him to crowbar his theories into, he packed up and moved on.

The other two original crop circle 'experts' were Pat Delgado (who died last year after an illness) and Colin Andrews, who eventually started to realise that there was a massive human element to it all and he moved to America to join the UFO lecture circuit (apparently after a Wiltshire Meeting with Stephen Greer!). He has since made a reappearance (maybe the UFO circuit in the states isn't the gravy train he expected) and does run a website that seems to report urban legend type stuff as fact (some of it including crop circle related bits) that is all presented in his unique, badly written illogical ambiguity with plenty of promises of 'jam tomorrow'.

None have ever gone down in a blaze of glory, they just seem to slip quietly out of the scene. Sometimes if one of them upon discovering the truth, decides to speak out about what they've found out, they are character assassinated by the High Order of Croppies and of course, they must have been paid off by the Evil Gummint.

Funny to note that several crop circle researchers (bleevers) have turned into circlemakers but no circlemaker has ever turned into a bleever.

That's interesting! I always thought they were the real woos. Postulating the supernatural or aliens is weird, and unnecessary, but postulating a (completely ridiculous) naturalistic explanation because you really, really don't want to consider it might be supernatural or aliens is even madder.

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

Depends were abouts you are circlemaking I guess. There are some places in the hot spots in Wiltshire where there are 'spotters' on the hills, looking for first signs of fresh crop circles. You don't want to be in the field when it's getting light because of this.

Yes, I'd imagine you'd have to be very careful where you went if you weren't doing it entirely under cover of darkness.

Another thing some of these guys don't factor in though is that a lot of circlemaking seems to go on in late summer and autumn. There's a lot of dark around by the time you're approaching September.

Rolfe.

 

[Stray Cat]

Yes, I'd imagine you'd have to be very careful where you went if you weren't doing it entirely under cover of darkness.

Another thing some of these guys don't factor in though is that a lot of circlemaking seems to go on in late summer and autumn. There's a lot of dark around by the time you're approaching September.

Rolfe.

Yes, summer solstice is June 21st, that's only about a third into the crop season. Usually starts early to mid April with a small spattering of OSR formations), The Barley is usually ready by Late May/Early June but some of the wheat has a long way to go before it's ready. The end of harvest (depending on weather conditions) is late August, has been known to be mid September, so it leaves quite a lot of nights where there is 5 or even 6 hours of good darkness. Good cloud cover also helps because it delays twilight.

 

[Stray Cat]

That's interesting! I always thought they were the real woos. Postulating the supernatural or aliens is weird, and unnecessary, but postulating a (completely ridiculous) naturalistic explanation because you really, really don't want to consider it might be supernatural or aliens is even madder.

Rolfe.

Terrence Meaden was the only one who was an 'academic' and bearing in mind that at the time the crop circles were just that, simple circles, sometimes two or three of them, but nothing of complex design like we see today. So I guess it was a possibility. Even though he did overstretch a bit as the first formations arrived that had concentric rings and straight lines and he re-drew his idea of the weather mechanism that could make such a thing, he soon was honest enough to realise what was happening and gave it up.
Colin Andrews on the other hand... a real woo, but not I think a bleever, more a dishonest, opportunist moneymaker.

 

[KingMerv00]

Don't forget the more people you have, the faster it gets done. A crop circle that takes 4 hours to complete by yourself may only take 1 hour if you have 4 people. This also further mitigates poop-bagging.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Talk about arbitrary skepticism. Which is more likely?

1) Pooping in plastic bags

2) Undetectable world spanning subconcious mind-magic?

Ah you're speaking about the principle of parsimony. . . also known as Occam's Toilet Paper.

It's a way of cutting through the . . . well you know.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Gotta pick a location. Gotta pick a design. Gotta get the tools. Gotta go there, do it, and clean up. Gotta mind the little things. Water, toiletries, parking, etc. Can't mind the weather, though. Rain and mud don't concern circlemakers.

Oh rain! Wow. I never thought of that!

That clinches your argument. It *has* to be a paranormal event. Humans just can't work around a rainy day.

We've absolutely got to allow for the suspension of laws of nature to account for doing any outdoor activity that could be adversely affected by rain.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

No mystery. The Pyramid builders had very strong sphynxters.

Excellent analysis. Glad you could rectify that little mystery.



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The porta-potty argument convinced me, I'm afraid. No way to argue against that.

No porta-potties = psi. QED

Nah---we can work around a lack of porta-potties. But think, man, it sometimes RAINS!!!!!

It must be PSI!

 

[Akhenaten]

Don't forget the more people you have, the faster it gets done. A crop circle that takes 4 hours to complete by yourself may only take 1 hour if you have 4 people. This also further mitigates poop-bagging.

And 400 people could do it in 36 seconds, and 4000 people . . .

Well, maybe not.

Sorry. Back to the scheduled programme . . .

Excellent analysis. Glad you could rectify that little mystery.

I see what you did there.