9/11-investigator explains the Holocaust

[realpaladin]

You shouldn't bother, because I cannot be convinced there was a Holocaust as is usually defined.

Why not? What is the reason for your unshakable faith?

 

[Nonpareil]

Why not? What is the reason for your unshakable faith?

Normally, I try to refrain from addressing others as neo-Nazis or anti-Semites, but this time I can't avoid it.
MaGZ's unshakeable belief that the Holocaust did not happen is not a result of research. It is not because he has simply been drowned in denialist propaganda and never exposed to the facts. It is because he will not let himself learn.
He doesn't want there to be a Holocaust. Because he is actually a neo-Nazi, is actually a raging anti-Semite. He is a white-supremacist, conspiracy-theorist, self-styled messiah-to-the-masses. He will never admit that the Holocaust happened simply because he would then have to admit that he had been wrong - and not only that, he would have been wrong about the Jews. It would mean that the Jews were not using a conspiracy to gain unimpeachable global supremacy. He would no longer have a reason for his hate. He would no longer have a conspiracy to rage against.
He won't ever accept that the Holocaust happened simply because he doesn't want it to have happened.

 

[MaGZ]

Normally, I try to refrain from addressing others as neo-Nazis or anti-Semites, but this time I can't avoid it.
MaGZ's unshakeable belief that the Holocaust did not happen is not a result of research. It is not because he has simply been drowned in denialist propaganda and never exposed to the facts. It is because he will not let himself learn.
He doesn't want there to be a Holocaust. Because he is actually a neo-Nazi, is actually a raging anti-Semite. He is a white-supremacist, conspiracy-theorist, self-styled messiah-to-the-masses. He will never admit that the Holocaust happened simply because he would then have to admit that he had been wrong - and not only that, he would have been wrong about the Jews. It would mean that the Jews were not using a conspiracy to gain unimpeachable global supremacy. He would no longer have a reason for his hate. He would no longer have a conspiracy to rage against.
He won't ever accept that the Holocaust happened simply because he doesn't want it to have happened.

I read the book "Hoax of the Twentieth Century". It answered all my questions.

 

[realpaladin]

I read the book "Hoax of the Twentieth Century". It answered all my questions.

Ok, downloaded the PDF version. Will read it. Will comment on it after. Can't say fairer than that, can you?

EDIT: You don't have to wait very long btw, I read extremely fast.

 

[realpaladin]

Am at page 192, going off for dinner.

Maybe you can help me point out if there is some proof or evidence in the 192 pages I read. Up until now there are too many 'possibly', 'probably' and other cop-out words in there. No proof yet.

EDIT: It reminds me of the Von Däniken books that 'prove' where Atlantis is, that the Egyptians were aliens etc.

 

[realpaladin]

Ok Magz, I have read it through once, so I may have missed a few points here, but most of the information in that book has been debunked/proven false over and over again in the last 30 years...

Just a few highlights:

- There is no information to the contrary that Goebbels diary was anything but genuine; it contains numbers and references to Hitler's resolve to destroy the jews. Goebbels estimate alone makes it into the 6 million range.

- Next, this Butz guy has no clue when it comes to the German language. Vergasung definitely means 'gassing people'. All ovens ran on solid fuel not gassified.

- Mounds of human ashes were found at Maidanek and Treblinka. The ashes at Auschwitz were dumped in the river and used as fertilizer.

- The crematoria used where even way more efficient than your 'loved-ones-ashes-to-ashes' variety which already leave less than a shoebox. For 6 million corpses there would be around 60.000 cubic metres left. That is not a lot to disperse across Europe.

- The inventory showed a gas-tight door and showerheads.

<anecdotal>
And then there's my personal anecdotal evidence; I was born in Germany and half of my relatives are German.

Living in the Netherlands with it's long-lived hatred against the Germans, it was natural for me to talk to the old-timers about the war.

Some of them worked at Degussa and they told me they knew what they were doing and why. I leave the whole 'feeling guilty and ashamed' out of it, as that is a matter I simply won't discuss with outsiders.

One of the old-timers was a Stuka pilot and he also got to know quite a lot of what was going on, he now gets all worked up when he sees that revisionist nonsense.
</anecdotal>

So, that book with a lot of factual errors and most of it speculation made you a believer?

 

[TSR]

So, that book with a lot of factual errors and most of it speculation made you a believer?

.
Such is the state of denier "scholarship" -- and it hasn't gotten any better since then
.

 

[9/11-investigator]

"The Rwandan Genocide was the 1994 mass killing of hundreds of thousands of Rwanda's Tutsis and Hutu political moderates by the HutuHutu Power ideology. Over the course of approximately 100 days, or more, from the assassination of Juvénal Habyarimana on 6 April through mid-July, at least 500,000 people were killed.[1] Estimates of the death toll have ranged between 500,000 and 1,000,000,[2] or as much as 20% of the total population of the country."

and yet, people still doubt that up to 6 million people could have been killed in 6 years, by one of the most advanced nations on Earth.

This is not a very sincere argument. Nobody doubts here that Germany could have done it from a 'logistical' point of view. After all, Jewish initiated Bolshevism managed to kill tens of millions of Christians in 2 decades, so why couldn't have the Germans done what the victors of WW2 alleged that they did? Nobody denies the deportations and I can't say for 100% sure that no mass killings took place in the industrial fashion according to conventional history writing. So far I am not convinced though. Keep trying.

 

[dtugg]

So far I am not convinced though. Keep trying.

I doubt if anybody cares whether you're convinced, nazi.

 

[9/11-investigator]

- Next, this Butz guy has no clue when it comes to the German language. Vergasung definitely means 'gassing people'. All ovens ran on solid fuel not gassified.

I am sorry to have to correct you, but 'vergasung' means plain 'gassing', not 'gassing people'. You can 'gas' anything, like: lice, pine apples, stinking clothes and yes, theoretically also people.

Here is the revisionist classic, the gas chamber of Dachau. It was used for clothing fumugation purposes and nothing else but this picture was used for decades to sell the official story.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Cx5YSp-gh...AADZo/7Mf4Civ23ZA/s400/Dachau-gas-chamber.gif

All lies.

 

[9/11-investigator]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_and_soil

Blut und Boden. Commonly used Nazi slogan.

is it fair to say that only a Nazi would use a Nazi slogan?

[qimg]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/08/Blut_und_Boden.svg/140px-Blut_und_Boden.svg.png[/qimg]

No, it is not fair to say that. This blood and soil slogan is nothing but a theory to celebrate the idea of a nation and this is still the norm on this planet: a people with a common language, history, customs, physical traits, linked to a territory. Territories like the US and Canada, basically 'nations' of immigrants (so not real nations at all in the classical sense), don't share this sentiment so it is no surprise that the quintessential cosmopolitans (the Jews) feel rather well in these territories. But the rest of the world is not interested in NWO-schemes, schemes designed to abolish any sense of nationhood, that is any sense of community. We are not interested in these schemes so go play your 'nazi'-calling games somewhere else. Doesn't impress anybody. And since the US gov now has a budget with 50% red ink the rest of the world will watch in amusement how another USSR is going to bite the dust.

NWO RIP

 

[Thunder]

Nazis love to deny.

 

[Par]

You shouldn't bother, because I cannot be convinced there was a Holocaust as is usually defined.

Wow. I don't think I have ever seen a Holocaust denier flat out admit that his beliefs are unfalsifiable.

1. Nazi admits his beliefs cannot be affected by evidence and argument.

If you... believe they are dead where are their remains? Show me the graves or mountain of ashes.

2. Nazi demands capricious and arbitrary standards of evidence, a la “I won’t believe the Titanic struck an iceberg until someone shows me the iceberg in question”. How odd.

 

[Nonpareil]

I read the book "Hoax of the Twentieth Century". It answered all my questions.

Funny how this doesn't attempt to refute any of the "white-supremacist neo-Nazi" stuff.
In addition, if you really had come to your revisionist stance through research, then presenting evidence to the contrary should still affect your position. Yet you say that it would not. Why?

 

[Moss]

Why again are we supposed to provide evidence when the net result of our efforts is zero?

 

[9/11-investigator]

Why again are we supposed to provide evidence when the net result of our efforts is zero?

Are you sure you don't want to rephrase this self-defeating admission?

On a positive note I am sure that my opponents will be as delighted as I am to learn that one of the most well known Canadian citizens, Ernst Zuendel, has been released from a German dungeon! Crime: he refused to believe the tales communist commissars had invented in 1945 in Nuremberg.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100301/ap_on_re_eu/eu_germany_holocaust_denier

One thing is clear: the food in the German gulag is abundant.

 

[TSR]

On a positive note I am sure that my opponents will be as delighted as I am to learn that one of the most well known Canadian citizens, Ernst Zuendel, has been released from a German dungeon! Crime: he refused to believe the tales communist commissars had invented in 1945 in Nuremberg.

.
Again: here's the state of denier scholarship: Zundel was never a Canadian Citizen, he was a Landed Immigrant: he called off his second petition to become a citizen (the first was refused in 1966) when the last of the roadblocks he tried to use to prevent his past from being looked at failed. He then claimed Canada was persecuting him, and vowed never to return.

He then overstayed his visa waiver in the US, and ran to Canada upon deportation from the States (despite being "persecuted" there) and tried to claim refugee status from an outstanding warrant in Germany. Now he could have arguably simply returned to his Landed Immigrant status, but by claiming to be a refugee he guaranteed that the examination of his background which he fought so hard to avoid before would be done.

After finding that he posed a threat to national security, Canada sent him to Germany, where he stood trial for 14 counts of inciting racial hatred. Zundel promptly hired Horst Mahler to represent him, despite the fact that Mahler had been disbarred for his intimate association with the Red Army Faction (including robbing banks and helping at least imprisoned comrade escape jail.) Did I say "intimate?" I meant "founder." Oops!

And no, if you are familiar with him from his "Village People" days like here you'll see he actually looks healthier now.

Another shipment of FAIL for 9/11i
.

 

[Uzzy]

Hmm. Wayne 'The Great One' Gretzky, Terry Fox, Paul Henderson, Pierre Trudeau, John A. Macdonald, Benton Fraser, William Shatner, Louis Riel, Celine Dion. These are people one thinks of when one thinks of 'Famous Canadians'. Infact, I asked a good Canadian friend of mine if they had heard of Ernst Zuendel, and got a negative response.

Seems he's not one of the most well known Canadians after all. Then again, the Canadians wouldn't really celebrate a Nazi. They'd shoot them. Pretty good at it, from what I've read.

 

[dudalb]

Hmm. Wayne 'The Great One' Gretzky, Terry Fox, Paul Henderson, Pierre Trudeau, John A. Macdonald, Benton Fraser, William Shatner, Louis Riel, Celine Dion. These are people one thinks of when one thinks of 'Famous Canadians'. Infact, I asked a good Canadian friend of mine if they had heard of Ernst Zuendel, and got a negative response.

Seems he's not one of the most well known Canadians after all. Then again, the Canadians wouldn't really celebrate a Nazi. They'd shoot them. Pretty good at it, from what I've read.

Zuendel got a lot of coverage in the Candian press at the height of his activities, but most of it was negative...not the kind of fame you want.

 

[Moss]

Are you sure you don't want to rephrase this self-defeating admission?

No. Because it has absolutely nothing to do with the validity and time spent into that effort.
We have nothing to gain from this as from you own admission there is no way to convince you.