Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[Fiona]

Well Luca said Battistelli entered the room and lifted the quilt. He remained firm that Battistelli entered the room and Battistelli insisted he did not. Luca acknowledged that he did not see Battistelli lift the quilt, though, because he went outside before that happened (if it did)

 

[piktor]

The only way to confirm if it was Battistelli who lifted the quilt is for me or someone else to find the video I watched months ago and figure out who is this male person on the video.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Amanda's testimony

Fiona,

You wrote (#3346), “Ok let us look at these cartwheels and what has been said about them,” and quoted from her testimony. “I do not see anywhere where Knox says a policeman asked her to do this.” I know you would never intentionally set up a straw man, but in #3344 I never claimed that about her testimony. My position was and is the following: Amanda’s testimony is indeterminate on whether she were asked by a policemen or not. For example, FM’s questions lump all of her actions together, “FM: All right. We heard, and you gave testimony on this point, about your behavior in the Questura, the cartwheel, the gymnastics, the stretching and so forth.” Therefore, Amanda’s answer could be taken to refer to things done before or after the arrival of the policeman. Likewise, her reply to LG might or might not be a reference to the policeman. Under those circumstances, there is no reason to disregard completely what Amanda said to Frank via an intermediary.

With respect to a different subject, you wrote, (#3515), “Once again it is for each to make up their own minds on the basis of what we can know and what we make of those facts.” Your grammar may be colloquial, but you heart is in the right place, and what you said there applies equally well here, IMHO. Moreover, I agree completely with Kestrel that the cartwheel has nothing to do with guilt or innocence. Its main interest to me is what it says about how the media treat information like this.

Chris

 

[Matthew Best]

The only way to confirm if it was Battistelli who lifted the quilt is for me or someone else to find the video I watched months ago and figure out who is this male person on the video.

Seems unlikely they were videoing when they first entered the room.

In any case finding a video of someone else lifting the quilt does nothing to prove whether Battistelli did it or not.

 

[piktor]

Seeing is believing

Seems unlikely they were videoing when they first entered the room.

In any case finding a video of someone else lifting the quilt does nothing to prove whether Battistelli did it or not.

It pays to be patient:

I found this Italian video. Note the date and time: 2 -11-2007 / 15:20:56

The image of a detective lifting the quilt starts at 0:41

Also note the person lifting the quilt is wearing gloves, so probably it is not Battistelli but a Scientific Police detective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dpZheBIhQs&feature=related

 

[Matthew Best]

And what does it prove exactly?

 

[Dan O.]

It proves that Battistelli is either a liar or one of the gang that raped and murdered Meredith. Only the murderers would have know that the body under the duvet in that dark room was already dead and not just injured and needing immediate medical attention.

 

[Fulcanelli]

I distinctly remember watching a video of the victim's room and a male detective lifting the quilt and looking at the victim for a moment. The detective was standing to the left of the victim, near the wall with a window.

I cannot confirm if this video was shot by the first detectives on the scene or if the video was shot by the Scientific Police at a later time.

That would be by the foresnics later. Incidentally, the video to which you refer is part of the reason why the Sollecitos and and a couple of people from Telenorba are going on trial this April (21st I think).

 

[Fulcanelli]

It proves that Battistelli is either a liar or one of the gang that raped and murdered Meredith. Only the murderers would have know that the body under the duvet in that dark room was already dead and not just injured and needing immediate medical attention.

Just the sort of crass comment we've come to expect from you.

 

[Dan O.]

Just the sort of crass comment we've come to expect from you.

I'm simply presenting a fact that you don't want to acknowledge.

Are you going to present any reasoning for why my statement is not true or are you just going to attack the arguer instead of the argument.

 

[Fiona]

It proves that Battistelli is either a liar or one of the gang that raped and murdered Meredith. Only the murderers would have know that the body under the duvet in that dark room was already dead and not just injured and needing immediate medical attention.

No.That video does not relate to Battistelli in any way at all.

Try again?

 

[Fulcanelli]

I'm simply presenting a fact that you don't want to acknowledge.

Are you going to present any reasoning for why my statement is not true or are you just going to attack the arguer instead of the argument.

If you had actually bothered opening your eyes and reading for a change and been in less of a hurry to spit your venom, you would have noted what I wrote a post or two before yours...here's your argument: #3568

 

[Dan O.]

No.That video does not relate to Battistelli in any way at all.

Try again?

My claim is that Battistelli is a liar when he says that he did not enter the room and lift the duvet. If he is not a liar then he must have had prior knowledge that Meredith was already dead or he doesn't care that there could be a seriously wounded person in that room whose care should take precedence over maintaining a pristine crime scene.

The video is not part of that claim except to show what was visible from the doorway.

 

[Fulcanelli]

My claim is that Battistelli is a liar when he says that he did not enter the room and lift the duvet. If he is not a liar then he must have had prior knowledge that Meredith was already dead or he doesn't care that there could be a seriously wounded person in that room whose care should take precedence over maintaining a pristine crime scene.

The video is not part of that claim except to show what was visible from the doorway.

Oh I see, so whatever he did or didn't do he's a bad guy. Damned if he did, damned if he didn't. There's nothing like imposing a double bind on people to make a fair criticism

 

[Fiona]

My claim is that Battistelli is a liar when he says that he did not enter the room and lift the duvet. If he is not a liar then he must have had prior knowledge that Meredith was already dead or he doesn't care that there could be a seriously wounded person in that room whose care should take precedence over maintaining a pristine crime scene.

The video is not part of that claim except to show what was visible from the doorway.

Ah, I see. So your comment had nothing to do with the posts which preceded it at all. Fair enough. And you know for a fact that an experienced police officer cannot make a judgement as to whether someone is dead from the amount of blood and the cyanosis of Meredith's foot, which was visible? I have asked you before, Dan_O: what are your qualifications in forensics and pathology?

 

[stilicho]

My claim is that Battistelli is a liar when he says that he did not enter the room and lift the duvet. If he is not a liar then he must have had prior knowledge that Meredith was already dead or he doesn't care that there could be a seriously wounded person in that room whose care should take precedence over maintaining a pristine crime scene.

False dichotomy.

There is an obvious and supportable third option. As a member of the Postal Police it was his obligation to contact the Carabinieri and/or his superior officer for directions.

This is far more likely since we know the Postal Police were reluctant to damage the door and that evidence of a crime scene was instantly recognisable once the door was finally kicked in.

By all accounts, the Postal Police were blameless in their part of the investigation. Well, all accounts excepting Dan O's Fantasy Manga.

 

[tsig]

Fiona,

You wrote (#3346), “Ok let us look at these cartwheels and what has been said about them,” and quoted from her testimony. “I do not see anywhere where Knox says a policeman asked her to do this.” I know you would never intentionally set up a straw man, but in #3344 I never claimed that about her testimony. My position was and is the following: Amanda’s testimony is indeterminate on whether she were asked by a policemen or not. For example, FM’s questions lump all of her actions together, “FM: All right. We heard, and you gave testimony on this point, about your behavior in the Questura, the cartwheel, the gymnastics, the stretching and so forth.” Therefore, Amanda’s answer could be taken to refer to things done before or after the arrival of the policeman. Likewise, her reply to LG might or might not be a reference to the policeman. Under those circumstances, there is no reason to disregard completely what Amanda said to Frank via an intermediary.

With respect to a different subject, you wrote, (#3515), “Once again it is for each to make up their own minds on the basis of what we can know and what we make of those facts.” Your grammar may be colloquial, but you heart is in the right place, and what you said there applies equally well here, IMHO. Moreover, I agree completely with Kestrel that the cartwheel has nothing to do with guilt or innocence. Its main interest to me is what it says about how the media treat information like this.

Chris

She's guilty. The preponderance of evidence leaves no reasonable doubt.

 

[funk de fino]

She's guilty. The preponderance of evidence leaves no reasonable doubt.

Except for a few 911 Truther type clones, this is certainly the case for most folks.

 

[Dan O.]

I'd like to know more about Battistelli's qualifications and why someone with his obvious talents is relegated to returning lost property.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ers-staged-cover-up-burglary-court-hears.html

When Insp Battistelli ordered the locked door of Miss Kercher's bedroom to be kicked in, he encountered a scene of horror.
"There was blood everywhere, a great deal of it. I told everyone to get out and I did not go in. I had some idea of how she died because I could see the marks on her neck and the blood but I didn't speak to anyone about it."

 

[stilicho]

I'd like to know more about Battistelli's qualifications and why someone with his obvious talents is relegated to returning lost property.

He's an inspector in the Postal Police, Dan O. It's part of his job to return communications devices.

Unless you have a full transcript of the testimony, your arguments are at best aimless and fruitless. We already know that all this was resolved in court. Do you know if Battistelli was ever charged with perjury? That's what Ghirga was huffing and puffing about a year ago. And, if not, why not?