Merged Has this structural engineer been debunked? / Astaneh-Asl "melting of girders"

pgimeno said:
Sorry for going on with this off-topic. There's material for splitting it to a new thread now, I think.


That's fine. Note taken that you fail to address my questions, which I will repeat just in case you decide to change your mind and address them:

Where's the fire caused by 1500+°C of molten steel touching the papers?

Are you suggesting that that paper is special so that it doesn't burn or emit smoke?

Doesn't it look like the papers are visible in the sunlit zone?

To help you with the last one, here's another version of that frame which compensates for the saturation of the red component:

[qimg]http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/xfiles/11-s/fotograma-yt-4EuWmvYMk2s-compensa-saturacion.jpg[/qimg]
Click to expand...

Just in case people might take their eye off the ball what with multiple tampered images I repost the original authentic videoclip:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EuWmvYMk2s

I am beginning to wondr whether the paper had not had it's properties changed and become more fire resistant. Like in this photo as well as in the video:-(read added text)
http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/DEW/dewpics/Image123.jpg
'' Aluminum cladding and paper lay in the street, but where is the steel? And why isn't more of the paper on fire? It won't be on fire for long if that fireman gets his fire hose working. Why is it only paper that survived and not office furniture and equipment? Most of this paper must have been in steel filing cabinets and bookshelves.''

That covers your questions thoroughly I think ?
 
bill smith said:
Just in case people might take their eye off the ball what with multiple tampered images I repost the original authentic videoclip:-
Click to expand...
The videoclip has improper white balance and has a saturated red channel. I merely compensated for both in that image, which is otherwise the same. You can compare them to check:

fotograma-yt-4EuWmvYMk2s-original.jpg


fotograma-yt-4EuWmvYMk2s-compensa-saturacion.jpg


bill smith said:
I am beginning to wondr whether the paper had not had it's properties changed and become more fire resistant.
Click to expand...
That's telling, thanks.

bill smith said:
That covers your questions thoroughly I think ?
Click to expand...
If your position is that the paper was fireproof even against 1500+°C then yes, that covers my questions thoroughly and reveals the level of delusion you're willing to reach in your inflationary conspiracy theory.
 
pgimeno said:
The videoclip has improper white balance and has a saturated red channel. I merely compensated for both in that image, which is otherwise the same. You can compare them to check:

[qimg]http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/xfiles/11-s/fotograma-yt-4EuWmvYMk2s-original.jpg[/qimg]

[qimg]http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/xfiles/11-s/fotograma-yt-4EuWmvYMk2s-compensa-saturacion.jpg[/qimg]


That's telling, thanks.


If your position is that the paper was fireproof even against 1500+°C then yes, that covers my questions thoroughly and reveals the level of delusion you're willing to reach in your inflationary conspiracy theory.
Click to expand...

We've been looking t it more here. If any Readers are interested.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5614372#post5614372
 
bill smith said:
We've been looking t it more here. If any Readers are interested.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5614372#post5614372
Click to expand...
That was the dumbest post on 911 yet. You have potential at posting the dumbest ideas on 911 without presenting evidence, and then posting dumber ideas without learning a thing. Why not add some math to your posts so you can beat Balsamo at presenting the most idiotic math in the world related to 911.

bill, you can add light and photography to your "have not a clue" category of subjects you fail at in relation to 911 issues. Got some math to go with your delusions?
 
Just a reminder... some of you are letting bill smith walk all over you. He's trolling way too hard and you're obliging him. You're not teaching him or anyone else anything by engaging him. He's just controlling you. He's got his fingers in your brain and he's making you dance on his whim.
 
Cl1mh4224rd said:
Just a reminder... some of you are letting bill smith walk all over you. He's trolling way too hard and you're obliging him. You're not teaching him or anyone else anything by engaging him. He's just controlling you. He's got his fingers in your brain and he's making you dance on his whim.
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She is the best 911 truth has, a cult member posting lies without thinking. I made a mistake and posted, I owe how many beers now?

At least the engineer from the OP thinks her ideas on 911 are garbage.
 
Hold on a second. The video shows a firetruck driving through it, and it's still supposed to be molten metal??



And the vid was posted by someone trying to claim that it showed molten metal in the street? People, the ignore button exists for posters forwarding stupid claims like this.
 
bill smith said:
I can only say hat if you are happy to say that what we see in the pic/video is sunlight, then I am happy for you to do so.
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If you're happy then we're happy so we can all be happy together.
 
ElMondoHummus said:
Hold on a second. The video shows a firetruck driving through it, and it's still supposed to be molten metal??



And the vid was posted by someone trying to claim that it showed molten metal in the street? People, the ignore button exists for posters forwarding stupid claims like this.
Click to expand...

If you will fill entire core columns with nanothermite and then melt them you will get pools of thin and super hot molten steel that is still reacting. You see the byproduct of the nanothermite IS molten iron.
 
pgimeno said:
The videoclip has improper white balance and has a saturated red channel. I merely compensated for both in that image, which is otherwise the same. You can compare them to check:

[qimg]http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/xfiles/11-s/fotograma-yt-4EuWmvYMk2s-original.jpg[/qimg]

[qimg]http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/xfiles/11-s/fotograma-yt-4EuWmvYMk2s-compensa-saturacion.jpg[/qimg]


That's telling, thanks.


If your position is that the paper was fireproof even against 1500+°C then yes, that covers my questions thoroughly and reveals the level of delusion you're willing to reach in your inflationary conspiracy theory.
Click to expand...

Is the black and white photo the real one ?
 
WildCat said:
Sorry RedIbis, you quoted a structural engineer who not only supports the NIST's conclusions, but in fact contributed to the investigation. And now you want us to debunk it?

:dl:


Man, it's funny when truthers step in it and can't shake it off!
Click to expand...

It is humorous how truther fail before they get started; pre-debunked

... 911 truth, self debunking for 8 years trying for 9 years of failure highlighted with zero evidence.
 
bill smith said:
If you will fill entire core columns with nanothermite and then melt them you will get pools of thin and super hot molten steel that is still reacting. You see the byproduct of the nanothermite IS molten iron.
Click to expand...

So someone hollowed out an entire column that runs the length of the building? That's amazing. How was this done so that tons and tons of super duper nano thermite could be silently poured in? Was the building built that way? Was it transported in there by the Transporter on the star ship that Judy Wood says turned the WTC to dust?

Just asking questions there Bill.
 
bill smith said:
If you will fill entire core columns with nanothermite and then melt them you will get pools of thin and super hot molten steel that is still reacting. You see the byproduct of the nanothermite IS molten iron.
Click to expand...

Maybe they filled some of the perimeter ones as well and that would explain the river of molten steel flowing out the building just before the collapse... or do you think that the liquid steel flowed from the core to the perimeter Bill, rather than flowing down the elevator shafts.

Thermite in the columns implicates an even larger cover-up team, since no one reported anything odd about the columns during the clear up. But since none of those doing the recovery signed our ae911truth petition, I guess its reasonable to assume they were in on it.
 
Telltale Tom said:
Maybe they filled some of the perimeter ones as well and that would explain the river of molten steel flowing out the building just before the collapse... or do you think that the liquid steel flowed from the core to the perimeter Bill, rather than flowing down the elevator shafts.

Thermite in the columns implicates an even larger cover-up team, since no one reported anything odd about the columns during the clear up. But since none of those doing the recovery signed our ae911truth petition, I guess its reasonable to assume they were in on it.
Click to expand...

I don't believe they melted the exterior columns at all Tom. Only some of the core ones. About 50% of them. Around 12-15,000 tons worth. Scotta bove does not seem to be aware that the core columns were box-columns and were already hollow all the way to the 88th floor.

So the targeted columns were discreetly filled with nanothermite and then melted in a fast sequence from bottom to top with one melted section dropping through the hole left by the melted section underneath it and all ending up in the basement where it would bubble for months until it finally cooled. Even the 'giant Lake' of water' that was pumped in there had little effect on the cooling and only resulted in creating the ' meteorites' that we all know so well at the interface of the pool of steel and the rubble around it that was melting into it .

They had to stop pumping apparently as subway stations as far away as Jersey were threatening to flood.

PS. The molten steel that flowed out of the window of the 81st floor of WTC2 was probably caused by a blockage at the 80th floor. Then the melted steel from above suddenly had no hole to drop into. It broke through the fireproofing sheath and flowed across the open 40 feet of floor to the window where an estimated 8 tons spilt out as we all saw.
 
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bill smith said:
I don't believe they melted the exterior columns at all Tom. Only some of the core ones. About 50% of them. Around 12-15,000 tons worth. Scotta bove does not seem to be aware that the core columns were box-columns and were already hollow all the way to the 88th floor.

So the targeted columns were discreetly filled with nanothermite and then melted in a fast sequence from bottom to top with one melted section dropping through the hole left by the melted section underneath it and all ending up in the basement where it would bubble for months until it finally cooled. Even the 'giant Lake' of water' that was pumped in there had little effect on the cooling and only resulted in creating the ' meteorites' that we all know so well at the interface of the pool of steel and the rubble around it that was melting into it .

They had to stop pumping apparently as subway stations as far away as Jersey were threatening to flood.

PS. The molten steel that flowed out of the window of the 81st floor of WTC2 was probably caused by a blockage at the 80th floor. Then the melted steel from above suddenly had no hole to drop into. It broke through the fireproofing sheath and flowed across the open 40 feet of floor to the window where an estimated 8 tons spilt out as we all saw.
Click to expand...

Now that sounds like the "Truth"!
 
scott.in.taiwan said:
So someone hollowed out an entire column that runs the length of the building? That's amazing. How was this done so that tons and tons of super duper nano thermite could be silently poured in? Was the building built that way? Was it transported in there by the Transporter on the star ship that Judy Wood says turned the WTC to dust?

Just asking questions there Bill.
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While the upper floor columns were "wide flange" ones (what people used to call "I-beams", the lower floor columns were actually box ones, and hollow to begin with.

But I'd just blow off that silliness. First of all, the collapse unambiguously started in the fire and impact zones for both towers, not below. Given that Bazant clearly demonstrates that for the Twin Towers, once started, a collapse will go all the way, you're stuck with a situation where thermite either starts the collapse to begin with, or doesn't have any effect at all. And clearly, the recovered columns from the collapse initiation zones show zero signs of thermite melting, so clearly, thermite was not used at all. Claiming that lower floors matter requires refuting Bazant. Not a whole lot of truthers know what to do with Bazant except nit-pick one of his primary assumptions, which demonstrates a lack of understanding the purpose of that assumption to begin with (hint: "Limiting case").

Furthermore, let's not forget witnesses managed to get out of the lower floors on the towers. If you examine NCSTAR 1-7, you'll find diagrams of where stairwells were located in the towers. The stairwells were mostly contained within the core, although on some floors they would weave to the outside of it. Still, though, my point is that the proximity of the stairwells also negates the presumption of thermite having been used on lower floors. If they had, they would've killed people in stairwells. This sort of thing would have been noticed.

This is nothing more than a resurrection of Max Photon's playful proposal. It was silly then (since when is thermite able to achieve such a controllable temperature?), and it's silly now.
 
Fortunately the water is so clear that the mud that is being added drops to the bottom and the water soon becomes crystal clear again.
 
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