The Freeman Movement and England

[carlitos]

Have you answered my questions? Rhetorical of course! The answer is NO!

I read the language post a couple of times, and it is just woo. You have IMPORTANT INFORMATION that makes you special, and not everyone knows what you know. This is not like a Japanese guy going to Cali and teaching the Californians Japanese. That would actually be useful.

ETA - this is what I mean by "the language post."

If you live on the island of Lightindarkness and only ever know the language of Lightindarknessinian that is all you will ever speak if you meet no one else from another shore.

Those few Lightindarknessinian's who do leave their homeland and encounter others from another race of people may or may not choose to learn the new language they have now encountered.

Some may stay in the new land never to return to their homeland again thus never imparting the newly discovered language to their fellow people.

Others may do so, coming back and teaching the new language to their own people.

This is a little like why a freeman-on-the-land can be and is arrested and not the reason why he should be.

You see if you live on the island of Lightindarkness and only ever know the language of Lightindarknessinian that is all you will ever speak if you meet no one else from another shore. These are the Policy Enforcement Officers and Judiciary who never move out of their circle. They have been taught since day one that they can essentially do whatever they like under Statute Law as it is equal to, derived from or in most cases superior to common law. Now like those of the island of Lightindarkness they know nothing of any other subject other than what they have been taught is correct. Why would they the poor souls? These are in the majority. These have rather comfortable lives and will jump at the push of a button to execute what they believe is what they have the right to do so regardless of the actual facts.

The others however are comprised of two sorts. Firstly the ones who spread their newly learned language to their fellow people and gain knowledge of other ideas and facts. Some are drawn to leave the Policy Enforcement Office they hold and begin a new life. These people who have worked enslaving others for years are well known and have dropped out of the mainstream and began to paddle their own canoe. They are known to us all through the mainstream media that belittles and mocks them for making a choice of and for the self.

Lastly are the ones tempted by freedom but not enough. Fear of mockery and guilt about family humiliation and so forth is to much for them so they stay within the system sometimes letting the word out but then slipping back inside the system.

Dude, the mainstream media isn't belittling or mocking you and the other FOTL peddlers (or paddlers, now that you mention it). They don't even know that you exist. Maybe you should hire a PR guy. I have only ever heard of you guys on this obscure internet forum.

 

[Arthur Asky]

Its a sly dig at me
I post as asky on ickes site

JB

Your level of self-importance is overwhelming! I wouldn't dream of such a thing!

 

[Arthur Asky]

I read the language post a couple of times, and it is just woo. You have IMPORTANT INFORMATION that makes you special, and not everyone knows what you know. This is not like a Japanese guy going to Cali and teaching the Californians Japanese. That would actually be useful.

ETA - this is what I mean by "the language post."


Dude, the mainstream media isn't belittling or mocking you and the other FOTL peddlers (or paddlers, now that you mention it). They don't even know that you exist. Maybe you should hire a PR guy. I have only ever heard of you guys on this obscure internet forum.

You only replied to a fraction of the post but did not comment upon WHAT the post actually said.

You and your likes WOO is amazing that you only comment on what you feel like. How sad to live a life of fear and seek to repress others by putting your blinkers on.

So how does this go then? Do I just keep re-posting my points and questions or do you just answer them or admit that you can't we'll give this one more go eh! Before I start to re-post stuff that recieved no answers!

 

[Horatius]

To Lightindarkness this:"Derativa potestas non potest esse major primitiva.
The power which is derived cannot be greater than that from which it is derived". If you can show me where a power is greater than from which it is derived is the case then I would like to know. A human being may create something like a work of art but a work of art cannot create a human being. Therefore the human being is the master not the painting. Do you agree with this Lightindarkness? Or not? I can make five paintings but the paintings cannot make five masters. Do you agree? Or not?

You have a very limited definition of the word "Power".

So, you admit that the entire basis of this FOTL business is your religious convictions?

Would an atheist like me be allowed to be a FOTL?

Even you as an atheist are a Freeman. If by accidental and not divine intervention you are created you still are equal to all others. Is an athelete supreme over a non-athelete who is more intelligent than the athelete?

Discuss!

Nice dodge.


I'll quote someone who actually understands the point I was making:

The "holy books" were also made by humans.

If the basis of your "lawful" is exactly the same as the basis for our "legal", then how can you assert that you are subject to "law", but not "legal"? If one is true, the other must be as well.

Unless you're willing to take a stand, and actually admit that your beliefs are nothing more than religion. I could accept that, even as I disagree with it. And I'd have a lot more respect for you demonstrating the courage of your convictions, instead of playing silly weasel word games.

 

[Arthur Asky]

[qimg]http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/7328/hbomb.jpg[/qimg]


You have a very limited definition of the word "Power".No you have a very different definition of the word POWER. It took someone to create the bomb. How many people can the bomb create? Zero.


Nice dodge. Or was it a question you couldn't answer?


I'll quote someone who actually understands the point I was making: Is this because you find it difficult to articulate what you are trying to say


If the basis of your "lawful" is exactly the same as the basis for our "legal" which it is not. I can legally park anywhere I want (as long as it breaches no-one else's peace) but your tiny frame of mind Statute states I can't, then how can you assert that you are subject to "law", but not "legal"? If one is true, the other must be as well. See the previous point.

Unless you're willing to take a stand, and actually admit that your beliefs I believe nothing are nothing more than religion. I could accept that, even as I disagree with it. And I'd have a lot more respect for you demonstrating the courage of your convictions, instead of playing silly weasel word games.

What's the problem? Just giving back what you keep throwing out. Here's a tissue!

 

[Horatius]

[qimg]http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/7328/hbomb.jpg[/qimg]


You have a very limited definition of the word "Power".No you have a very different definition of the word POWER. It took someone to create the bomb. How many people can the bomb create? Zero.


Nice dodge. Or was it a question you couldn't answer?


I'll quote someone who actually understands the point I was making: Is this because you find it difficult to articulate what you are trying to say


If the basis of your "lawful" is exactly the same as the basis for our "legal" which it is not. I can legally park anywhere I want (as long as it breaches no-one else's peace) but your tiny frame of mind Statute states I can't, then how can you assert that you are subject to "law", but not "legal"? If one is true, the other must be as well. See the previous point.

Unless you're willing to take a stand, and actually admit that your beliefs I believe nothing are nothing more than religion. I could accept that, even as I disagree with it. And I'd have a lot more respect for you demonstrating the courage of your convictions, instead of playing silly weasel word games.

What's the problem? Just giving back what you keep throwing out. Here's a tissue!

Learn to format and I'll address this.

 

[LightinDarkness]

This will come to a great shock to you all, I'm sure, but it appears as though the moderators on the David Icke forum have no problem with the Freemen calling people stupid, idiots, sheeple, etc. But dare point it out and you get a warning for "provocative trolling" - this message was so hilarious I just had to share:

Dear lightindarkness,

You have received a warning at David Icke's Official Forums.

Reason:
-------
Provocative Trolling - First Notice

Lightindarkness

the continued provocative nature of your posts bring little to the debate or OP premise and are seen as trolling.

Please attend to keeping to the OP topics and not posting diversary comments.

Thanks

mnerlin
-------

Original Post:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1058626992#post1058626992

---Quote---
Yawn. More of the same.

Freeman tactic book:
1) Insult whoever disagrees
2) Join forum gangs to obfuscate
3) When confronted with evidence, act hysterical.

Still awaiting on the evidence that we don't have to pay taxes here in the US. So far all that has been presented has been debunked.
---End Quote---
Warnings serve as a reminder to you of the forum's rules, which you are expected to understand and follow.

All the best,
David Icke's Official Forums

Ah yes! DONT YOU DARE ASK FOR EVIDENCE! THATS TROLLING!

 

[Arthur Asky]

No answer to the points I've raised then, just tears!

There, there, more tissues for both of you!

 

[LightinDarkness]

No answer to the points I've raised then, just tears!

There, there, more tissues for both of you!

And around and around yozhik goes, flailing about.

You have yet to raise any point. You brought up a fake latin legal maxim which has no basis in the law, and then proceeded to fire questions on that basis. Your assumption is wrong, and thus your further questions have no basis in reality.

Try again. You've been debunked. Again, yozhik.

 

[Arthur Asky]

You simply are a waste of time Lightindarkness. You claim debunk but cannot and have not responded. If human beings are equal WHICH WE ARE, then how do you claim that one can have sovreignty over another. Just because you claim debunk does not make it SO!

Is that the basis of your argument, because you say so? Sorry I 've lost you, I can't see through your ego! It's too big. If you can't answer my questions then admit it and all this can stop.

It's that easy!

 

[Horatius]

Learn to format and I'll address this.

No answer to the points I've raised then, just tears!

There, there, more tissues for both of you!

There's a reason I responded as I did. I would like you to demonstrate an ability to learn anything before I try to teach you something complicated.


But of course, feel free (on the land?) to continue posting your silly "tissue" posts, should you wish to (continue to) look like someone who can't even figure out how to use the forum editing features.


Because that's certainly the best way (that you know) to convince people you understand The Law.

 

[Horatius]

If human beings are equal WHICH WE ARE, then how do you claim that one can have sovreignty over another.

So, in addition to not knowing how to spell "Sovereignty", you also apparently don't believe in democracy.


Nice.

 

[carlitos]

officially, my longest post ever. sorry.

You only replied to a fraction of the post but did not comment upon WHAT the post actually said.

You and your likes WOO is amazing that you only comment on what you feel like. How sad to live a life of fear and seek to repress others by putting your blinkers on.

So how does this go then? Do I just keep re-posting my points and questions or do you just answer them or admit that you can't we'll give this one more go eh! Before I start to re-post stuff that recieved no answers!

Ah, what the hell. I'm watching Naked Gun and drinking gin; it's not like I'm busy.

If you live on the island of Lightindarkness and only ever know the language of Lightindarknessinian that is all you will ever speak if you meet no one else from another shore.

This would have been true about 2,000 years ago, and lesserly true 100 years ago. Now we have these mass communication devices like TV, Satellite, radio, newspapers and the "internet." So no, most people on planet Earth have actually heard this language called "English," whether they have travelled from another shore or not. There are whole countries in Western Europe where the people have never met an American, and yet they speak fluently when they meet the first one. I have experienced this firsthand in small towns in the Netherlands. So, no. You are wrong. Are you glad you asked me to respond yet?

Those few Lightindarknessinian's who do leave their homeland and encounter others from another race of people may or may not choose to learn the new language they have now encountered.

Yes, when I lived overseas, I picked up the language. Others prefer to live in ex-pat colonies, where they can keep speaking their own language. I'm assuming you have a point here...

Some may stay in the new land never to return to their homeland again thus never imparting the newly discovered language to their fellow people.

True. Especially if you go to Singapore or Venezuela. Lots of hot chicks. Good reasons to stay. No reason to bring Singlish or Español back to the yankee simpletons. Who hear Spanish all the time anyway, but that's in another thread. Where was I, oh, yeah "Sí Maria. Por supuesto, te voy a respetar en la mañana. Te respeto muchísimo. Ven acá, mi amor..." Ah, memories.

Others may do so, coming back and teaching the new language to their own people.

I'm a little skeptical about this, if you'll excuse the expression. Why would Marco Polo bother teaching Chinese to his Italian bretheren? Did Hernan Cortéz return to Spain and teach Nahuatl? I don't think so. Louis and Clark were not known to be proponents of Shoshone language; I think they just spoke French to Sacagawea. No, I don't think that this is likely or common.

This is a little like why a freeman-on-the-land can be and is arrested and not the reason why he should be.

Great. After the build-up I thought that this wouldn't go anywhere. I'll make some popcorn.

You see if you live on the island of Lightindarkness and only ever know the language of Lightindarknessinian that is all you will ever speak if you meet no one else from another shore.

As I mentioned above, this is a silly claim. You are on the internet. I am on the internet. Dudes in Belgium are on the internet. This is a ridiculous metaphor.

These are the Policy Enforcement Officers and Judiciary who never move out of their circle.

OK, I'll admit that they hang out together, but "never move out of their circle" is silly. What, they don't have mothers, brothers, in laws, classmates? They only speak law, not football or beer or music? They don't coach little league? That's ridiculous.

They have been taught since day one that they can essentially do whatever they like under Statute Law

No, they actually work in a fair amount of fear from IAD or whatever agency oversees their work. They often work with a freaking camera on, recording their every move. They certainly can't do "whatever they like," so no. You are wrong. Again. I am starting to see a pattern here.

as it is equal to, derived from or in most cases superior to common law.

Let's make a bet. You ask 100 police officers about "common law" and tell me that 75+ don't say "what - common law marriage?" They certainly haven't been "taught" since "day one" that statutes are anything at all in relation to common law, because you guys just made this common law **** up from your asses.

Now like those of the island of Lightindarkness they know nothing of any other subject other than what they have been taught is correct.

I have never "been taught" to play piano, but I'm quite good. I have never "been taught" how to use the internet to book cheap flights or use eBay, but somehow I muddle through. No, it's not "correct." Wrong again.

Why would they the poor souls? These are in the majority. These have rather comfortable lives and will jump at the push of a button to execute what they believe is what they have the right to do so regardless of the actual facts.

You just made a bunch of stuff up here. It doesn't make any sense. And I have a hunch that your idea of "actual facts" is a bunch of woo woo. Not, you know, actual facts.

The others however are comprised of two sorts. Firstly the ones who spread their newly learned language to their fellow people and gain knowledge of other ideas and facts.

Why would some evangelist of "language" have a better chance to gain knowledge of other ideas and facts? Do you think that door-to-door preachers "gain knowledge of other ideas and facts?" No, they are doing the talking, not the listening. Your metaphors suck.

Some are drawn to leave the Policy Enforcement Office they hold and begin a new life.

Cops typically retire after 20 years, get a pension, and start a new job. What this has to do with your crazy story is beyond me.

These people who have worked enslaving others for years are well known and have dropped out of the mainstream and began to paddle their own canoe.

When my fellow citizens and I established the local police force and fire brigade, we didn't "enslave" anybody. We just got a little security.

They are known to us all through the mainstream media that belittles and mocks them for making a choice of and for the self.] They are known to us all through the mainstream media that belittles and mocks them for making a choice of and for the self.

The "mainstream media" tends to lionize mavericks who "paddle their own canoe." On the other hand, the "mainstream media" has never, ever heard of "Freeman on the Land" unless they have a crazy uncle who visits your websites. Based on what I've seen, that uncle is incarcerated right now. Where are you getting this stuff?

Lastly are the ones tempted by freedom but not enough. Fear of mockery and guilt about family humiliation and so forth is to much for them so they stay within the system sometimes letting the word out but then slipping back inside the system.

"The system" is real life. You don't appear to be able to deal with this world, so you are inventing a new one. Your chances for success are limited by this choice.

So, in conclusion, you believe that you have special, secret IMPORTANT INFORMATION that I don't have. You liken it to speaking a language, and I am ignorant because I don't speak your language. You are wrong. Your information is a bunch of woo. Your information is no different than religion or UFO sightings, and it makes you feel special. Good for you.

PS - here is a hint. If you hit the "quote" button, you will learn the "language" that I used to format this post. That's what Horatius is asking you to do. Please don't respond by typing in red or whatever. Thanks!

 

[LightinDarkness]

You simply are a waste of time Lightindarkness. You claim debunk but cannot and have not responded. If human beings are equal WHICH WE ARE, then how do you claim that one can have sovreignty over another. Just because you claim debunk does not make it SO!

Is that the basis of your argument, because you say so? Sorry I 've lost you, I can't see through your ego! It's too big. If you can't answer my questions then admit it and all this can stop.

It's that easy!

Yozhik, the more you post, the more you debunk Freeman/Freeloading on the land. Please keep it up.

We are not all equal. Never have been, never will be. People are different, they contribute different things to society and the value of their contributions are different. You can recite latin phrases all day, but it doesn't change the fact that NO part of the law uses it.

The facts have debunked you.

Again
and again.

 

[Arthur Asky]

Ah, what the hell. I'm watching Naked Gun and drinking gin; it's not like I'm busy.


This would have been true about 2,000 years ago, and lesserly true 100 years ago. Now we have these mass communication devices like TV, Satellite, radio, newspapers and the "internet." So no, most people on planet Earth have actually heard this language called "English," whether they have travelled from another shore or not. There are whole countries in Western Europe where the people have never met an American, and yet they speak fluently when they meet the first one. I have experienced this firsthand in small towns in the Netherlands. So, no. You are wrong. Are you glad you asked me to respond yet?


Yes, when I lived overseas, I picked up the language. Others prefer to live in ex-pat colonies, where they can keep speaking their own language. I'm assuming you have a point here...


True. Especially if you go to Singapore or Venezuela. Lots of hot chicks. Good reasons to stay. No reason to bring Singlish or Español back to the yankee simpletons. Who hear Spanish all the time anyway, but that's in another thread. Where was I, oh, yeah "Sí Maria. Por supuesto, te voy a respetar en la mañana. Te respeto muchísimo. Ven acá, mi amor..." Ah, memories.

I'm a little skeptical about this, if you'll excuse the expression. Why would Marco Polo bother teaching Chinese to his Italian bretheren? Did Hernan Cortéz return to Spain and teach Nahuatl? I don't think so. Louis and Clark were not known to be proponents of Shoshone language; I think they just spoke French to Sacagawea. No, I don't think that this is likely or common.

Great. After the build-up I thought that this wouldn't go anywhere. I'll make some popcorn.



As I mentioned above, this is a silly claim. You are on the internet. I am on the internet. Dudes in Belgium are on the internet. This is a ridiculous metaphor.

OK, I'll admit that they hang out together, but "never move out of their circle" is silly. What, they don't have mothers, brothers, in laws, classmates? They only speak law, not football or beer or music? They don't coach little league? That's ridiculous.

No, they actually work in a fair amount of fear from IAD or whatever agency oversees their work. They often work with a freaking camera on, recording their every move. They certainly can't do "whatever they like," so no. You are wrong. Again. I am starting to see a pattern here.

Let's make a bet. You ask 100 police officers about "common law" and tell me that 75+ don't say "what - common law marriage?" They certainly haven't been "taught" since "day one" that statutes are anything at all in relation to common law, because you guys just made this common law **** up from your asses.


I have never "been taught" to play piano, but I'm quite good. I have never "been taught" how to use the internet to book cheap flights or use eBay, but somehow I muddle through. No, it's not "correct." Wrong again.

You just made a bunch of stuff up here. It doesn't make any sense. And I have a hunch that your idea of "actual facts" is a bunch of woo woo. Not, you know, actual facts.

Why would some evangelist of "language" have a better chance to gain knowledge of other ideas and facts? Do you think that door-to-door preachers "gain knowledge of other ideas and facts?" No, they are doing the talking, not the listening. Your metaphors suck.

Cops typically retire after 20 years, get a pension, and start a new job. What this has to do with your crazy story is beyond me.

When my fellow citizens and I established the local police force and fire brigade, we didn't "enslave" anybody. We just got a little security.

The "mainstream media" tends to lionize mavericks who "paddle their own canoe." On the other hand, the "mainstream media" has never, ever heard of "Freeman on the Land" unless they have a crazy uncle who visits your websites. Based on what I've seen, that uncle is incarcerated right now. Where are you getting this stuff?

"The system" is real life. You don't appear to be able to deal with this world, so you are inventing a new one. Your chances for success are limited by this choice.

So, in conclusion, you believe that you have special, secret IMPORTANT INFORMATION that I don't have. You liken it to speaking a language, and I am ignorant because I don't speak your language. You are wrong. Your information is a bunch of woo. Your information is no different than religion or UFO sightings, and it makes you feel special. Good for you.

PS - here is a hint. If you hit the "quote" button, you will learn the "language" that I used to format this post. That's what Horatius is asking you to do. Please don't respond by typing in red or whatever. Thanks!

I have indeed used the quote function before you typed your WOO and have also posted in red and as you requested it I shall deny your request unless you are forum administration. Which, from you Avatar and information given you are not!

See how the request can be denied but an order has authority! Which I think (about authority) you possess none!

Thanks for playing into my hands.

 

[Arthur Asky]

Learn to format and I'll address this.

I won't be formatting thanks. Your reply isn't very important!

 

[carlitos]

I have indeed used the quote function before you typed your WOO and have also posted in red and as you requested it I shall deny your request unless you are forum administration. Which, from you Avatar and information given you are not!

So how does this go then? Do I just keep re-posting my points and questions or do you just answer them or admit that you can't we'll give this one more go eh! Before I start to re-post stuff that recieved no answers!

ETA - If you really don't care for the customs here (maybe you don't want to speak our 'language'?) go ahead and reply in red. But, given that I missed a few funny scenes in my movie while posting this, I would appreciate a comprehensive response. Yes, I understand that I don't have the "authority" to compel you to respond.

 

[Arthur Asky]

So how does this go then? Do I just keep re-posting my points and questions or do you just answer them or admit that you can't we'll give this one more go eh! Before I start to re-post stuff that recieved no answers!

ETA - If you really don't care for the customs here (maybe you don't want to speak our 'language'?) go ahead and reply in red. But, given that I missed a few funny scenes in my movie while posting this, I would appreciate a comprehensive response. Yes, I understand that I don't have the "authority" to compel you to respond.

Ah! Now we are getting somewhere. Why do you have no authority but the Woo's say a Court Judge who is not elected (by the peer group) to serve in any capacity can do so over other human beings?

Let's put the Judge on his oath! Let's ask whether he is a Melchisadeckial Judge or Levitical. When he or she states that he or she is a Melchisadekial Judge then we know they can only mediate.

When they say they are Levitical then we know they are there only to fine and pay people and the trial becomes about money and not justice and remedy. We know then it's a farce and a farce is something you can walk away from.

 

[carlitos]

Really? No response to my response to your post? You are sad.

 

[Nonpareil]

Ah! Now we are getting somewhere. Why do you have no authority but the Woo's say a Court Judge who is not elected (by the peer group) to serve in any capacity can do so over other human beings?

Because you are part of a society, and society depends on several things. One of the big ones is that people don't just do whatever they feel like. There have to be rules, to prevent things like raping and pillaging for plunder whilst singing rousing pirate songs.
I don't know where you live. But I do know that, wherever it is, you enjoy the protection of something approximating a police force, as well as the benefit of having your water supplied and your electricity kept on for a small fee. You also expect that no one is going to break into your house and steal your priceless collection of antique bottle caps or signed photographs of David Icke. And if they do, you are going to expect for someone to get up off their butt and damn well do something about it.
And these benefits don't come for free. You are as much a subject to the rules whose benefits you reap as the next man. If you were not subject to the rules, you would not be entitled to profit from them. By residing in your country, state, principality or other area of governmental jurisdiction, you have entered into a tacit agreement to abide by the rules enforced there in exchange for the benefits which these rules offer.
But this is where your Freeman On The Land beliefs get silly: you believe that, if you say the magic legal words and declare yourself to be a ship at sea and therefore subject to maritime law, you are somehow capable of benefiting from these rules without having to submit to them. You are, in fact, trying to claim money for nothing and your chicks for free. You believe that, if you sign the right words on the right page in the right ink in the right format, all the debts you owe to your society are suddenly null and void, while at the same time this society is obliged to continue providing its services to you.
You are, in essence, attempting to use the Konami code in reality. You think that you can break the machine with the right combination of button presses - or, in this case, "payments of God's love" and made-up Latin credos - and get thirty free lives without actually having to go through the whole process of discovering a way to take advantage of the game engine's physics engine glitches and cheat the system honestly like the rest of us. You are trying to get something for nothing.
And you act surprised and indignant when it doesn't work. Why, no one is sure. The only possible conclusion is that you are actually so brain-dead as to believe that you can wave a magic wand - made out of faked, misquoted and misinterpreted legal documents, of course - and all your debts, past, present, and future, magically disappear, and you are free to continue with your life as you always have. What you fail to realize, though, is that, in declaring the debts you owe to society null and void, you are also forfeiting the debts which society owes to you - for example, the debt of not putting you in jail.
By the way, saying "up, up, down, down, left, left, right, right, A, B, select, start", or whatever it is that you Freemen do, won't get you out of the prison cell that awaits you.