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Sarah Palin Denial Syndrome?

ok, what is up with all these Conservatives who simply REFUSE to see or admit..what the rest of the world seems to understand about Sarah Palin?

#1. she has a great lack of knowledge of world history and current political events and dynamics.
#2. she has a great lack of historical and political sophistication....in terms of awareness of constitutional issues, major legal precedents, and the intentions of our Founding Fathers.
#3. she MAY....be a denier of the Theory of Evolution and the common descent of all animals on Earth.
#4. she MAY...be a denier of AGW.
#5. her speaking, memorization, and debating skills...are horrendous.


All ture, but she's also:

a) Cute.

b) Personable.

c) A political success story (more or less) that the average person can imagine might happen to themselves:

-- From hocky mom; to mayor of a town smaller than some big-city softball clubs; to governor of the country's largest state; to vice presidential candidate; to special consultant for Fox network. --

Never underestimate the impact of personal fantasy material on the electorate.
 
I'm certainly not disputing that mouth foamers on either side of the debate aren't influenced by the symbolism. However, I was responding more to "For those people who just can't stand Palin, it is because, as far as they are concerned, she comes from a different culture." I can't stand her mostly because she strikes me as woefully unprepared for the job, and the remainder is her smarmy comments about real Americans. I grew up a hick in NH, my father hunts and fishes, I've hunted and fished, everyone I knew when I was growing up was a rednecked hick (of the NH variety - that subtlety may or may not make sense to you). I assure you it is not those factors in her past that influences my opinion.

Your background tempers your consideration of Palin, and certainly there are a significant number of others who oppose her for the same reasons, but I know many people who are absolutely frightened of "hicks" and "country bumpkins" - as they see them.

Is the primary factor of their opposition her image or her substance (or lack thereof, so we can get that line out of the way)? For celebrity activists, the former is almost certainly true, given the list of those who have spoken out against her (Jennifer Lopez, Garofalo [sic], etc). For punditry, how many put up with Kerry or Biden's sense of verbiage?
 
I don't think Palin ever hunted wolves. Her connection to wolf hunting is that she authorized the culling of wolves using aircraft. While that riled a lot of folks opposed to hunting in general, the program was instituted in certain areas to protect falling moose and caribou populations. And it worked.

Yeah, I never quite got people's outrage with that. Why's a cull by helicopter worse than a cull by a bunch of guys in F-150s? It's Alaska- roads don't even go to most of the state. Hell, go to Google maps and try to get driving directions from the lower 48 to Ketchikan. You can't--and that's one of the southern cities in AK.

It's not like culls are rare in the lower 48, either. Many states have issues with overpopulation of some critter or another; deer is common. Coyotes are another.

It's such a weirdthing to make an issue of, IMO.

Unless people are seeing wolves as poor misunderstood puppy dogs. Which would be silly.
 
Your background tempers your consideration of Palin, and certainly there are a significant number of others who oppose her for the same reasons, but I know many people who are absolutely frightened of "hicks" and "country bumpkins" - as they see them.

Is the primary factor of their opposition her image or her substance (or lack thereof, so we can get that line out of the way)? For celebrity activists, the former is almost certainly true, given the list of those who have spoken out against her (Jennifer Lopez, Garofalo [sic], etc). For punditry, how many put up with Kerry or Biden's sense of verbiage?
I just don't feel comfortable trying to tease out motivations in people I've never met like that. I don't, however, find it particularly surprising that people find it worrisome that she was very close to running America when she was unable to name a single magazine or newspaper that she reads (as just one example). That's not a statement that the reactions you suggest does not exist, of course.


edit: on further reflection, I know many people that are afraid of "east coast ivy-league elites", of politicians, of lawyers, of liberal commies, of fundamentalists, etc. But I think we'd both agree the reaction to Palin is rather strong compared to other politicians. I'm having a hard time attributing to her background that in the face of what to me seemed like appalling early performances for somebody being offered as a VP.
 
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I guess the question is, what was that impact?

The provision of the bill which raised her ire got pulled. Like it or not, that's political power, and denying it (as Parky did) is just stupid, regardless of what side you're on.

I'd be interested to see the polling on independents over that period - my hypothesis is that the impact also worked against the Republicans, if winning elections is the metric.

That's much harder to determine, since opinions change between polling time and elections, and so many other factors come into play.
 
I just don't feel comfortable trying to tease out motivations in people I've never met like that. I don't, however, find it particularly surprising that people find it worrisome that she was very close to running America when she was unable to name a single magazine or newspaper that she reads (as just one example). That's not a statement that the reactions you suggest does not exist, of course.


edit: on further reflection, I know many people that are afraid of "east coast ivy-league elites", of politicians, of lawyers, of liberal commies, of fundamentalists, etc. But I think we'd both agree the reaction to Palin is rather strong compared to other politicians. I'm having a hard time attributing to her background that in the face of what to me seemed like appalling early performances for somebody being offered as a VP.

Right. I take your point about the danger of trying to assign motive. Of course, we can't really test our assumptions and we don't really know.

I was struck fairly hard with her performance in the Couric interview. It was only later, when reports about the McCain handling and more cogent Palin interviews surfaced, that I had less difficulty recovering. The accusation that she didn't know Africa was a continent helped too - there's no way a college-educated adult could be that ill-informed.
 
I have to say I find all this dubious. Bush and Cheney fish and hunt. I don't recall it ever being a big deal even when Cheney shot someone (and there you go - that mild joke is as a low blow you will ever find on the issue). Clinton came from rural Arkansas - that was never a huge issue.

George W. Bush: Yale and Harvard
Cheney: Yale (flunked out...but obviously someone who was admitted to but flunks out of Yale is smarter than a country bumpkin who gets a degree in some backwater...and is still a Yalie!), U of Wyoming
Bill Clinton: Georgetown, Oxford, and Yale

Sure, they all hunted, but that is not the end-all-be-all of the cultural disconnect.

In fact, I think one of the big reasons Bush (initially) had a hard time was because he clearly and consciously eschewed that particular crowd of elites and instead liked to spend time clearing brush on his ranch (remember how that was derided as well) and because of his "cowboy swagger" but he was clearly a pedigreed Yale and Harvard man, including his membership in Skull and Bones.

ETA: wanted to respond to this:
Rather than assign dubious motives to those that don't like Palin, why not explain why Palin would be an excellent leader of America

I never said she would be, and my contention is that many of the people who think she would be the greatest thing since sliced bread also think so due to a visceral, cultural reaction.
 
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You said "you'll find most hunters..." Anecdotal evidence vs. anecdotal evidence.

But you didn't even state what that anecdotal evidence of yours actually said. That makes it a little confusing.
 
But you didn't even state what that anecdotal evidence of yours actually said. That makes it a little confusing.

Oh, sorry. Well, perhaps you've gathered this, but most of the rural hunters I know supported Palin.
 
Thanks for the pep rally.
Barack Obama is an imbecile.

WHAT!?

im·be·cile (mb-sl, -sl)
n.
1. A stupid or silly person; a dolt.
2. A person whose mental acumen is well below par.
3. A person of moderate to severe mental retardation having a mental age of from three to seven years and generally being capable of some degree of communication and performance of simple tasks under supervision. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive.
adj. also im·be·cil·ic (mb-slk)
1. Stupid; silly.
2. Well below par in mental acumen.

AvalonXQ, on what basis or evidence do you make the assertion that President Obama fits the above description?
 
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WHAT!?

im·be·cile (mb-sl, -sl)
n.
1. A stupid or silly person; a dolt.
2. A person whose mental acumen is well below par.
3. A person of moderate to severe mental retardation having a mental age of from three to seven years and generally being capable of some degree of communication and performance of simple tasks under supervision. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive.
adj. also im·be·cil·ic (mb-slk)
1. Stupid; silly.
2. Well below par in mental acumen.

AvalonXQ, on what basis or evidence to you make the assertion that President Obama fits the above description?

President Obama does not fit the above description.

But then... neither does President Bush.
 
wrong. when McCain first chose her, I thought it was a very smart move. she seemed like an accomplished woman. modern, intelligent, etc etc. i thought Obama had a real run for his money.

....until Palin opened her mouth.

So, all of things you had read about what she actually accomplished and her actual policy positions went out the window when "Palin opened her mouth". And you think this argument undermines my assertion?


she is not politically sophisticated. she is not an intellectual. she does not know about or understand, or find interest in studying complicated foreign issues and domestic political dynamics.

Emphasis mine. Do you think that it is a requirement that some be an "intellectual" to become President? If so, you've just proven my point. There are millions of Americans who would find that notion deeply abhorrent, a large percentage of whom really, really like Palin.

and she can't remember Joe Biden's damn name. she kept calling him "O'Biden". what is she...retarded????;)

We remember and hilight the quirks and foibles of those we don't like, we ignore and minimise the quirks and foibles of those do. Is Obama retarded for referring to the "57" states that he had visited? Is he retarded for pronouncing "corpsman" as "corpseman", for a recent example? No, he isn't.

but then more serious and sophisticated candidates will start making themselves know, and Sarah will drown in a sea of knowledge, IQs, and vocabulary.

So, apparently you think being a sophisticated intellectual is a requirement to be President. And yet, clearly, my assertion is wrong.

I'm assuming that you are not aware that the founder of the Democratic Party faced almost exactly the same reception as you are giving to Palin. Andrew Jackson wasn't sophisticated, he wasn't one of the great intellectuals. He was the first president who was not a member of the gentry, a Scotch-Irish hick who served in the Revolutionary War as a young enlisted courier, not an officer, and who came to power making almost the exact same cultural arguments that Sarah Palin has been making over the past year.

http://statelibrary.ncdcr.gov/nc/bio/public/jackson.htm#Politics
Jackson's opponents were Henry Clay of Kentucky, John Quincy Adams of Massachusetts, and William H. Crawford of Georgia who were respectively speaker of the house, secretary of state, and secretary of the treasury. Adams was horrified at the thought of Jackson becoming president. The patrician New Englander thought this parvenu from the west was a badly educated bumpkin with little preparation for high office. Because Clay's opinion of Jackson was similar, the Kentuckian threw his support to Adams on the first ballot and Adams was elected. Jackson never forgave either one of them, especially after Adams named Clay his secretary of state in what seemed to be a payoff for Clay's votes.

In the years leading up to the 1828 election Jackson and his followers continually criticized the Adams administration. Jackson took the position he was the people's candidate and never lost an opportunity to point out that the people's choice in 1824 had been disregarded by the elite. This tactic proved successful and Jackson defeated Adams in the 1828 election and four years later defeated Clay in the election of 1832.

...

Andrew Jackson may have been our seventh president, but he was first in many ways. He was the first populist president who did not come from the aristocracy

...

Another major issue during Jackson's presidency was his refusal to sanction the recharter of the Bank of the United States. Jackson thought Congress had not had the authority to create the Bank in the first place, but he also viewed the Bank as operating for the primary benefit of the upper classes at the expense of working people.
 
The second half of Mike's post may address that. For many people, Palin is considered their most famous dog in the fight of common Americans vs. elitists of all stripes (Beltway Republicans, academic liberals, our pundit class). Anything that brings her down is therefore, by extension, an attack on the aforementioned average citizen, so many invent rationalizations. For example, there were still a lot of Palin defenders on HotAir even in the wake of preferential treatment towards Rush "what's the problem with calling retards, retards?" Limbaugh.

Nobody said it was a rational belief, but it exists.

This. It isn't rational, on either side, really. It is a response to either "she's not one of us" or "she really is one of us".

The substantive criticisms of her actual policy proposals(and substantive approval) simply doesn't explain the emotional response to the woman, in either direction.
 
Emphasis mine. Do you think that it is a requirement that some be an "intellectual" to become President? If so, you've just proven my point. There are millions of Americans who would find that notion deeply abhorrent, a large percentage of whom really, really like Palin.
Requirement? Obviously not. Desirable? Of course. What is the office of President except the production and dissemination of ideas? How could one form coherent public policy, respond to world events, understand how to structure education and form educational policy, how to advance our sciences, to understand and manage markets and capitalism, to negotiate with leaders with varying political beliefs and backgrounds, to comprehend the various cultures within America, etc?

One possible answer is good advisors, which certainly some Presidents have relied on more than others. But ya, being able to think at a high level and more than a passing acquaintance with the big ideas in public policy seems like a pretty important thing.
 
Requirement? Obviously not. Desirable? Of course. What is the office of President except the production and dissemination of ideas? How could one form coherent public policy, respond to world events, understand how to structure education and form educational policy, how to advance our sciences, to understand and manage markets and capitalism, to negotiate with leaders with varying political beliefs and backgrounds, to comprehend the various cultures within America, etc?

Do you really believe that someone must be an intellectual to do all of those things? Honestly?

Eisenhower did all of those things, and generally did them well, and he was not an intellectual. Unless by "intellectual", you mean "smart". The truth is, the two of those things are NOT synonymous, nor is one a subset of the other. Derrida and Foucault prove that.
 
Do you really believe that someone must be an intellectual to do all of those things? Honestly?

Eisenhower did all of those things, and generally did them well, and he was not an intellectual. Unless by "intellectual", you mean "smart". The truth is, the two of those things are NOT synonymous, nor is one a subset of the other. Derrida and Foucault prove that.

Applicable definitions from Merriam-Webster:

1 chiefly guided by the intellect rather than by emotion or experience; rational
2 given to study, reflection, and speculation




I'm fairly certain 2 was meant here, but 1 would work as well. It's sad how far anti-intellectualism has become ingrained in America.
 

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