Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[lane99]

One more immature outburst such as that above and you will earn the honour of becoming the first and only JREF member that I have ever put on Ignore.

If you are ready to read through the pages here, including the referenced links, then we may continue on lively and friendly terms. The answers are all there for you.

Holding your breath, and sticking your fingers in your ears. Not exactly my idea of critical thinking. But to each his own.

I've asked you to cite the cases you claim closely parallel the circumstances alleged in this one, and you've run for the hills. Let the record so show.

I'll allow others who are interested (and I can't imagine many would be) to refer the backhanded "welcome" you gave in the first post you ever directed at me and let them decide whether that was "friendly". Personally, I didn't find it so. It seems rather rude and condescending to me.

 

[lane99]

I'll take your word for it that there is not such another example within the 71 pages. So do I understand you bring no prior knowledge or considersation of criminal cases to this discussion?

Because I assure you it would not be unique to this case for an innocent person to accuse other innocent person. Perhaps someone has already cited an example in the latest posts in this thread (which I've not yet read).

If not, let's make a deal: I will provide you with such cases, if you provide me with other cases where the circumstances- particularly with regards the alleged motives, and the relationships between the supposed co-conspirators- parallel the circumstances alleged in this case.

Because, offhand, I can't think of any.

Stilco has put me on ignore, but for anyone else under the same misapprehesions that s/he is, here are just a couple of cases, of the top of my head, that would apparently be a complete revelation to him:

-see the case of "The Norfolk Four"

-see the case described in the Dateline show: "And Justice for All. Crime Lab"

In both of these cases innocent people accused not only themselves, but also other innocent people, of heinous rape/sexual assault/murder.

In the Norfolk case, you had SEVERAL people falsely confessing and accusing other innocent people.

NOTE: I tried to post links to the cases I refered to above. But the system here apparently doesn't allow it.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Raffaele's first call

The other important aspect of the cell phone records is to establish RS, at least, and AK, probably, as liars. Just as RS's undamaged drive established him as a liar.

Stilicho,

Raffaele called the police much earlier than most people realize: He called his sister, who was a member of the carabinieri. Unless there is a brother-sister privilege in Italian law (there is none in US law), this is no different than calling any other member of the carabinieri.

Chris

 

[Chris_Halkides]

So blood is the only source of DNA? If I remember the DNA source on the knife could not be identified. Arthur Conan Doyle also believed psychics.



And Laura and Filomena are ghosts.

It doesn't matter how you try to discredit the knife and bra, Amanda Knox will still be in prison.

There was no blood on the knife. No one has described a positive finding of any other tissue on the knife. Not sure what you mean about Laura and Filomena.

Chris

 

[Fiona]

Stilicho,

Raffaele called the police much earlier than most people realize: He called his sister, who was a member of the carabinieri. Unless there is a brother-sister privilege in Italian law (there is none in US law), this is no different than calling any other member of the carabinieri.

Chris

Again this is nothing new: not sure if you or someone else advanced this argument.

You believe that to be true

I believe it is belied by the fact that his sister told him to call the cops.

Others will have formed their own judgements.

 

[Alt+F4]

In both of these cases innocent people accused not only themselves, but also other innocent people, of heinous rape/sexual assault/murder.

A rough police interrogation might explain AK's accusation of Patrick Lumumba but it doesn't explain her lies before and after that interrogation.

Once in jail they freely wrote their police dairies, they wrote what they wanted.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Again this is nothing new: not sure if you or someone else advanced this argument.

You believe that to be true

I believe it is belied by the fact that his sister told him to call the cops.

Others will have formed their own judgements.

Fiona,

With due respect you are missing my point. Raffaele's call to his sister was a call to the police because she was a member of the carabinieri. I have not advanced this argument before, and I do not recall seeing it from anyone else. I would hazard a guess to the effect that she was off-duty at the time but point out that their conversation is unlikely to be legally privileged. I am not sure what you mean by belief in this instance. We agree that he called his sister. Do we not agree that she was a carabinieri?

Chris

 

[Alt+F4]

Raffaele called the police much earlier than most people realize: He called his sister, who was a member of the carabinieri. Unless there is a brother-sister privilege in Italian law (there is none in US law), this is no different than calling any other member of the carabinieri.

From what I recall he called his sister to ask for advice on what to do, not to report a crime.

 

[Fiona]

Fiona,

With due respect you are missing my point. Raffaele's call to his sister was a call to the police because she was a member of the carabinieri. I have not advanced this argument before, and I do not recall seeing it from anyone else. I would hazard a guess to the effect that she was off-duty at the time but point out that their conversation is unlikely to be legally privileged. I am not sure what you mean by belief in this instance. We agree that he called his sister. Do we not agree that she was a carabinieri?

Chris

No I am not missing your point. I am emphatically disagreeing with it. I think the basis of that disagreement is abundantly clear but if you cannot see it there is no help for you. The two positions are there for anyone else to evaluate. No more needs to be said

 

[Dan O.]

From what I recall he called his sister to ask for advice on what to do, not to report a crime.

He called his sister and reported the situation. At this point, we have one broken window, one tossed room, a little blood (actually a lot of blood if you aren't expecting to find any blood in the cottage) and one missing person. Unless Italy has a law against leaving doors open or toilets unflushed, there was no knowledge of a crime to report at that time.

 

[Alt+F4]

He called his sister and reported the situation. At this point, we have one broken window, one tossed room, a little blood (actually a lot of blood if you aren't expecting to find any blood in the cottage) and one missing person. Unless Italy has a law against leaving doors open or toilets unflushed, there was no knowledge of a crime to report at that time.

While he might not have thought a crime had taken place I don't think the call to his sister would be considered "reported" in a police sense. What did his sister tell him to do? Hang up and call (the Italian version) of 911. She didn't consider his call to her as official police business.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

From what I recall he called his sister to ask for advice on what to do, not to report a crime.

One infers that he called her because she was a policewoman (why would he call her and not his father). Police personnel have codes of conduct, and her proper reply and subsequent actions would have been dictated solely by them, not by a nonexistent sibling privilege.

 

[odeed]

There was no blood on the knife. No one has described a positive finding of any other tissue on the knife. Not sure what you mean about Laura and Filomena.

Chris

It has been the contention of those trying to find an excuse for the DNA evidence against Sollecito (and by extension Knox, not that anyone has given a reasonable excuse for the physical evidence against her, so she can rot in jail), that the DNA found was through contamination because he had been to the apartment (maybe half a dozen times) and shed his DNA around the rooms (he must of had eczema), and this is why DNA was found on the bra clasp.

But no one has given an explanation or examples (no one has pointed to the defense bringing it up, or blogging detectives have not mentioned it, and I have asked on this thread), of Filomena (and Laura) DNA being found at the crime scene or mixed with Kercher DNA, even though Filomena's room had been ransacked by the murder(ers).

All the evidence of wrong doing found to have DNA (bra, knife, blood and Luminol traces), which has Sollecito (and Knox) DNA, are dismissed as a coincidence by those defending Sollecito (and Knox).

and I will refer to my earlier post which has some of the DNA evidence against Knox http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5589121&postcount=2959

 

[Kestrel]

While he might not have thought a crime had taken place I don't think the call to his sister would be considered "reported" in a police sense. What did his sister tell him to do? Hang up and call (the Italian version) of 911. She didn't consider his call to her as official police business.

Asking others for advice before calling the police isn't really that odd.

His sister gave him good advice for this situation. He followed it by immediately calling the Italian emergency number.

Rudy Guede handled the situation by staying away and letting someone else discover the body,

 

[Alt+F4]

His sister gave him good advice for this situation. He followed it by immediately calling the Italian emergency number.

Rudy Guede handled the situation by staying away and letting someone else discover the body,

I don't think the fact that RS called the police and RG didn't says anything about their guilt or innocence. Some murderers call the police, others don't.

My point is that the call RS made to his sister's home or cell phone can't be considered a "call to the police".

 

[Chris_Halkides]

no reference

It has been the contention of those trying to find an excuse for the DNA evidence against Sollecito (and by extension Knox, not that anyone has given a reasonable excuse for the physical evidence against her, so she can rot in jail), that the DNA found was through contamination because he had been to the apartment (maybe half a dozen times) and shed his DNA around the rooms (he must of had eczema), and this is why DNA was found on the bra clasp.

But no one has given an explanation or examples (no one has pointed to the defense bringing it up, or blogging detectives have not mentioned it, and I have asked on this thread), of Filomena (and Laura) DNA being found at the crime scene or mixed with Kercher DNA, even though Filomena's room had been ransacked by the murder(ers).

All the evidence of wrong doing found to have DNA (bra, knife, blood and Luminol traces), which has Sollecito (and Knox) DNA, are dismissed as a coincidence by those defending Sollecito (and Knox).

and I will refer to my earlier post which has some of the DNA evidence against Knox http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5589121&postcount=2959

IIRC, Filomena and Laura shared one bathroom and Amanda and Meredith the other one. IIRC, the police did not take reference samples from either Laura or Filomena. I am not sure what you mean by coincidence. I would not use that word to characterize where I stand.

Chris

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Lumumba arrest

pale in comparison to taking no action to protect the public from a murderer who is on the loose. Is it really the case that in America they would not have detained Lumumba in similar circumstances? I find that quite odd

You are setting up false alternatives, do nothing or arrest Lumumba. Why not put him under surveillance until the forensics has come back?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

not unidentified

It's clear you don't understand how the truth is discovered either in court or in everyday life. The stories of abuse related through the media were quickly whittled down to mere couple of taps by an unidentified woman with brown hair. Did AK ever identify this woman? Did her legal team find out who it was?

Journalist Francesca Bene knows this woman, as I pointed out in post #2792.

 

[Fiona]

You are setting up false alternatives, do nothing or arrest Lumumba. Why not put him under surveillance until the forensics has come back?

That is possible, yes. What would they do in America?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

That is possible, yes. What would they do in America?

I am not sure.