Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

[Akhenaten]

As long a people contest the translation of almost all of the biblical translations of this word "pierced" from Psalm 22:16 , I have the right to respond to any points they bring up.

You do remember, don't you, that the original reason for this nonsense about translating a single word was to back up your claim that the reedcutters prophesied the means of jeebus' death.

Are we going to have to reconstruct the entire prophecy in this way?

If so, I might take a few months off.

 

[joobz]

You do remember, don't you, that the original reason for this nonsense about translating a single word was to back up your claim that the reedcutters prophesied the means of jeebus' death.

Are we going to have to reconstruct the entire prophecy in this way?

If so, I might take a few months off.

It's funny. Based upon my rather brief review of 3-4 scholarly articles written on the subject in the past 10 years, the only thing that they can agree upon is that Psalm 22 DOESN'T translate as pierced.

 

[Akhenaten]

It's funny. Based upon my rather brief review of 3-4 scholarly articles written on the subject in the past 10 years, the only thing that they can agree upon is that Psalm 22 DOESN'T translate as pierced.

Strangely, I find that unsurprising.

I'm finding more and more that applying the Law of Opposites™ to DOC's arguments renders them fairly informative.

No offence is intended to you in describing this translation effort as 'nonsense', by the way. I was referring more to its apparently forgotten (by DOC) purpose.

 

[joobz]

Strangely, I find that unsurprising.

I'm finding more and more that applying the Law of Opposites™ to DOC's arguments renders them fairly informative.

No offence is intended to you in describing this translation effort as 'nonsense'. I was referring more to its apparently forgotten (by DOC) purpose.

Oh, as far as I'm concerned, DOC really isn't even a player in this discussion. What I'm enjoying is the dipping of my toes in the waters of biblical scholarship that's interesting. I do not wish to delve into the pool entirely, but picking out small chunks and learning as I go is more fun for me.

DOC's only purpose in this game is to provide leads into bad biblical arguments, which are usually a more interesting domain to evaluate.

 

[Akhenaten]

Oh, as far as I'm concerned, DOC really isn't even a player in this discussion. What I'm enjoying is the dipping of my toes in the waters of biblical scholarship that's interesting. I do not wish to delve into the pool entirely, but picking out small chunks and learning as I go is more fun for me.

DOC's only purpose in this game is to provide leads into bad biblical arguments, which are usually a more interesting domain to evaluate.

That's very reassuring. We appear to have similar motivations for being here.

I'd never even read the NT until this thread came along, and it's been a real boon being introduced to it with the accompanying commentary being provided by yourself and the other fair-dinkum posters here.

 

[Paulhoff]

It seems believers in anything, religion, UFO’s as space ships, Big Foot, Dowsing, 9-11 conspiracy, etc have no interest in facts that do not support their belief, and many times they think words can sum it all up and no physical proof is needed, as if that is the only real proof that is needed.

One can’t get thru a closed mind that thinks it is open.

Paul

 

[DOC]

are you actually claiming that an 11 page well reference review is "short"?

The url you brought in only has one page. How do I read the other 10 pages?

That's one more page than I could see of the book you cited.

Well if you visit the US on your vacation you can see many pages of the book on this website:

http://books.google.com/books?id=PC...a&cd=1#v=onepage&q=Geisler 10 reasons&f=false

I say this because those outside the US can not read the book's pages on the above site.

If you don't want to do that you can always buy a used copy of the 425 page book for $4 on Amazon.

 

[joobz]

Well if you visit the US on your vacation you can see many pages of the book on this website:

http://books.google.com/books?id=PC...a&cd=1#v=onepage&q=Geisler 10 reasons&f=false

I say this because those outside the US can not read the book's pages on the above site.

If you don't want to do that you can always buy a used copy of the 425 page book for $4 on Amazon.

which has no bearing on the fact that Psalm 22 is NOT a prophecy.

 

[amb]

How about the Dead Sea Scrolls as a source:

From the MessianicArt website

"The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls also gave us a major contribution to textual scholarship, providing some of the most ancient Biblical texts known in history. The Scrolls, which could not have been influenced by an apologetic or defensive theology on either side of the debate, have ka'aru, instead of ka'ari! This seriously damages the anti-missionary allegation of a "mistranslation", and provides significant textual weight for the translation "pierced"."

http://www.messianicart.com/chazak/yeshua/psalm22.htm

Actualy, these scrolls are further proof on the Jesus as myth hypothesis.

They are silent on the Christ.

 

[DOC]

How about the Dead Sea Scrolls as a source:

From the MessianicArt website

"The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls also gave us a major contribution to textual scholarship, providing some of the most ancient Biblical texts known in history. The Scrolls, which could not have been influenced by an apologetic or defensive theology on either side of the debate, have ka'aru, instead of ka'ari! This seriously damages the anti-missionary allegation of a "mistranslation", and provides significant textual weight for the translation "pierced"."

http://www.messianicart.com/chazak/yeshua/psalm22.htm

Actualy, these scrolls are further proof on the Jesus as myth hypothesis.

They are silent on the Christ.

From the article:

Extraordinary Evidence About Jesus in the Dead Sea Scrolls: Grant Jeffries


"In 1991 the world was astonished to hear that one of the unpublished scrolls included incredible references to a "Messiah" who suffered crucifixion for the sins of men. The scroll was translated by Dr. Robert Eisenman, Professor of Middle East Religions of California State University. He declared, "The text is of the most far-reaching significance because it shows that whatever group was responsible for these writings was operating in the same general scriptural and Messianic framework of early Christianity."

http://www.grantjeffrey.com/article/article1.htm

 

[Akhenaten]

So another group based their cult on a similar story.

Gosh!

 

[paximperium]

So another group based their cult on a similar story.

Gosh!

This is great evidence that the whole Jesus stories are not original but pretty widespread.

 

[DOC]

So another group based their cult on a similar story.

So 11 of 12 apostles died for a "story" about someone they knew and followed for 3 years and who died in their hometown and supposedly rose from the dead without proof?

 

[paximperium]

So 11 of 12 apostles died for a "story" about someone they knew and followed for 3 years and who died in their hometown and supposedly rose from the dead without proof?

Who died again? Where is the evidence that this "dying" even occured?

 

[BobTheDonkey]

So 11 of 12 apostles died for a "story" about someone they knew and followed for 3 years and who died in their hometown and supposedly rose from the dead without proof?

And thousands more who knew those involved chose not to believe the stories... Since we're playing the numbers game, I'm going with the non-believers. There're more of them.

 

[DOC]

This is great evidence that the whole Jesus stories are not original but pretty widespread.

What is great evidence the whole Jesus stories are not original- Explain and with dates?

 

[BobTheDonkey]

What is great evidence the whole Jesus stories are not original- Explain and with dates?

Any non-debunked evidence for Jesus' existence?

Hell, we'd settle for evidence that the NT writers were telling the truth...

 

[paximperium]

What is great evidence the whole Jesus stories are not original- Explain and with dates?

Dead Sea Scrolls or more well known as the Qumran Scrolls. Dated approx 100BC-70CE
You know, you scrolls you keep attempting to reference. You do realize it has many similar messiah stories. Don't you?

 

[DOC]

Who died again? Where is the evidence that this "dying" even occured?

So then you're saying this article "List of Christian Martyrs" in Wiki is false:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_martyrs

 

[paximperium]

So then you're saying this article "List of Christian Martyrs" in Wiki is false:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_martyrs

Nope. But that has nothing to do with your original claim about the so-called apostles who are eye-witnesses now does it? Are you lying again DOC?