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Penn & Teller episode on Catholicism draws outrage

Donal said:
Uh, skeptical, do you know what systematic means? Because last I checked, the Catholic Church doesn't have a list of protocols for messing with young boys. Systematic really doesn't fit in your sentence.

I do find the hiding of these priests horrible and think the offenders (the less than 1% of them) should be defrocked and subject to prosecution. Thats why I make sure my donations don't go the the Vatican's general fund or the Peter and Paul fund. Those are where the settlement money come from.

Personally, I think Penn is a self important, loud mouthed rectal breach whose "documentaries" can be on par with Michael Moore's when it comes to honesty. He should be his own subject some time.

However, he often does raise points that need discussing and I've always voiced the opinion that the Church should address the reasonable issues raised by shows like this. Even if it is to dismiss the sensationalism and vilification producers like to employ. Boycotting or demanding its removal only adds fuel to the fire.

I wonder how many of the people who were so happy Penn did this episode feel the same about his gun control and political correctness episodes.
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:)
 
bignickel said:
Wrong.
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Last I checked, A Few Good Men was indeed a fictional movie, based on a play.

As I said, watch the movie to see how they dealt with YOUR argument: that if it's not 'written down' then it's not something that exists in the normal command structure.
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You are missing one important detail: THEY ACTUALLY HAD OFFICERS ADMIT IT!

As others have pointed out, it's been happening for years, and the church has not discouraged it, tried to root it out, or stop it. They've simply shifted problem priests to a different area, where it could happen all over again.
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Which is something many Catholics have vocally opposed, myself included.

Whether it was 'encouraged' or not was besides the point, although with the regularity that it was continually covered up, you can see why the South Park episode was so funny with the priests therein arguing that abusing altar boys was essentially a job perk.

(oh yeah: I also know that South Park is 'fictional'. No need to point that out, too)
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Are you going to use South Park as proof now?
 
Donal said:
Last I checked, A Few Good Men was indeed a fictional movie, based on a play.
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Really? You're taking my "wrong" as an answer to whether or not "A Few Good Men" is fictional or not? Seriously? That's the way you're reading my response to your posts?

If that's the way you're playing it, I'm not interested. For you to claim that my bringing up an argument made by a character in a movie is my 'proof' is intellectually dishonest. I have better things to do with my time.
 
I know this is old, but here's my late 2 cents...

As much as I loved every P&T episode before, this one left me suspicious. Not because I'd be Catholic or Christian (I'm not), but because they didn't let once an opposing opinion be voiced. In all other shows, they had people speaking for the opposing side, even if it was just for making fun of them. Why not this time?

Well, after reading a bit here and there, I think the reason may be that they didn't want anyone to rain in their parade and prove that the show was poorly researched and contained a lot of half-truths. And some blatant lies, like the claim that the Vatican ever denied Holocaust.

Major part of the show is about the policial satirist Sabina Guzzanti, whom the Vatican allegedly wanted to get into jail because of her insulting the Pope. This dramatic claim surely helps her sell tickets, but there's no evidence at all that the Vatican was bothered, let alone tried to apply pressure. It wasn't the Vatican but an prosecutor in the Italian government who wanted her jailed.

Find more here: http://www.themediareport.com/sep2009/penn-teller-lies.htm
Now, are the claims on that page all true? I'm not sure. But since P&T didn't let a single non-basher speak, which I consider a no-go on an inherently controverse subject, I give the Vatican the benefit of the doubt.

After so many great episodes, this one was a downer. But then again, it's a good thing when the idols of skepiticism are reduced to human size every now and then; it helps skepiticism.
 
Verklagekasper said:
I know this is old, but here's my late 2 cents...

As much as I loved every P&T episode before, this one left me suspicious. Not because I'd be Catholic or Christian (I'm not), but because they didn't let once an opposing opinion be voiced. In all other shows, they had people speaking for the opposing side, even if it was just for making fun of them. Why not this time?

Well, after reading a bit here and there, I think the reason may be that they didn't want anyone to rain in their parade and prove that the show was poorly researched and contained a lot of half-truths. And some blatant lies, like the claim that the Vatican ever denied Holocaust.

Major part of the show is about the policial satirist Sabina Guzzanti, whom the Vatican allegedly wanted to get into jail because of her insulting the Pope. This dramatic claim surely helps her sell tickets, but there's no evidence at all that the Vatican was bothered, let alone tried to apply pressure. It wasn't the Vatican but an prosecutor in the Italian government who wanted her jailed.

Find more here: http://www.themediareport.com/sep2009/penn-teller-lies.htm
Now, are the claims on that page all true? I'm not sure. But since P&T didn't let a single non-basher speak, which I consider a no-go on an inherently controverse subject, I give the Vatican the benefit of the doubt.

After so many great episodes, this one was a downer. But then again, it's a good thing when the idols of skepiticism are reduced to human size every now and then; it helps skepiticism.
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Penn stated in the episode that they attempted to get the RCC to have a rep come on the show, the RCC refused (or didn't even reply). Kind of hard to get a RCC viewpoint when the RCC isn't interested in having a reply.
 
Vermonter said:
Penn stated in the episode that they attempted to get the RCC to have a rep come on the show, the RCC refused (or didn't even reply). Kind of hard to get a RCC viewpoint when the RCC isn't interested in having a reply.
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I don't know how hard they tried to get a speaker of the RCC. Fact is, there is none in this episode. Fact is, they claim within the first 3 minutes that "the Pope and his crew" denied the Holocaust. Which is, in P&T's words, ********. I find this outrageous, and there are more ******** claims in this episode. Don't you have the least problem with these selfproclaimed fighters against ******** to spread LIES?
 
Verklagekasper said:
I don't know how hard they tried to get a speaker of the RCC. Fact is, there is none in this episode. Fact is, they claim within the first 3 minutes that "the Pope and his crew" denied the Holocaust. Which is, in P&T's words, ********. I find this outrageous, and there are more ******** claims in this episode. Don't you have the least problem with these selfproclaimed fighters against ******** to spread LIES?
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So you denounce them because they don't satisfy your guidelines for "best effort" to try and get a RCC speaker on the show? That seems somewhat disingenuous. I'll have to re-watch the episode to check on that claim, and I'll get back to you. I'm at work right now and I don't have my P&T eps with me, so I'll have to get back to you in the morning.
 
South Park Kills Bill

fullflavormenthol said:
What makes me laugh is that he (Donahue) believes that CBS (Viacom) is really going to be that concerned about an adult oriented show on a subscription service, when another show produced under Viacom (South Park) has pretty much been allowed to offend absolutely everyone for over a decade.

The people who actually follow Donahue are not exactly the people that are viewers of P&T. Nevertheless this all irritates me because Donahue and other idiots are the ones that want to censor everything that I enjoy watching. That and the hypocracy that would occur if I demanded a pro-Catholic program were to be taken off the air for insulting atheists.

I suppose Donahue has a subscription to Showtime, lost his remote and knew he would be trapped in his chair the whole time; and needed the Catholic League to save him.

Holy See, Batman! Bill Donahue is in trouble. Catholic League Assemble!
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South Park did a episode about Donahue called "Fantastic Easter Special" if you have a faster enough connection you can watch the full episode here:

http://www.southparkstudios.com/guide/1105/
 
Verklagekasper said:
I don't know how hard they tried to get a speaker of the RCC. Fact is, there is none in this episode. Fact is, they claim within the first 3 minutes that "the Pope and his crew" denied the Holocaust. Which is, in P&T's words, ********. I find this outrageous, and there are more ******** claims in this episode. Don't you have the least problem with these selfproclaimed fighters against ******** to spread LIES?
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Wait, how hard are they supposed to try and get an RCC representative? If they contacted the RCC, explained what they were doing and the RCC declined to have an official representation on the show, what else can be done?
 
Vermonter said:
So you denounce them because they don't satisfy your guidelines for "best effort" to try and get a RCC speaker on the show? That seems somewhat disingenuous. I'll have to re-watch the episode to check on that claim, and I'll get back to you. I'm at work right now and I don't have my P&T eps with me, so I'll have to get back to you in the morning.
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Penn also said that the Roman Catholic Church has been spewing their viewpoint for nearly 2,000 years, and P&T have a 30 minute show. In many issues, like PETA, for example, both sides should be represented, but I'm with Penn in that the Catholic Church hardly needs to have its side presented to be fair.
 
Let me say for the record, as I am a lover not (just) a fighter, but Sabina Guzzanti? Hot and talented. She's 46. Does she look 46? I think not. Mambo Italiano.

Okay, back to the degeneration of this thread into a debate on the fairness of Penn picking on the poor underrepresented Roman effing Catholic Church.
 
Donahue is known also for his attacks on PZ Meyers, and the Simpsons
 
Sledge said:
Wait, how hard are they supposed to try and get an RCC representative? If they contacted the RCC, explained what they were doing and the RCC declined to have an official representation on the show, what else can be done?
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They probably could have gotten someone to support the church without speaking for the church (Bill Donohue, for example, not that he would have), but that probably wouldn't be much better.
 
Undesired Walrus said:
I'm more outraged that 'Penn and Teller' and 'skepticism' are in the same sentence.
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They try, sort of. But I have to agree with you, I'm not impressed their programs are more skepticism than sensationalism. Clearly, they know what sells.

But on that note, the above link to the BS segment is dead and I've not yet watched the TAM link from this thread. So my comments are general and not about the Catholicism piece (yet).
 
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