Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

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Kestrel said:
Not far from the truth. Here is Edgardo Giobbi, the chief investigator in the Knox case, explaining how he was able to establish guilt:





This interview was before they figured out that Rudy Guede was involved.

At this point, Patrick Lumumba was still one of the guilty parties.
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Oh, so, you mean the Italian justice system didn't just pick the first passersby to convict?
 
Dan O. said:
Yes. This camera
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_151444b5dba7130e74.jpg[/qimg]

It's right at the south end of Raffaele's street and would show Amanda walking back to the cottage to take her shower, Amanda returning to Raffaele's place with the mop to clean up the spill in his kitchen and Amanda and Raffaele returning to the cottage shortly before they call the police. It would not show Amanda headed to the cottage with knife in hand on the evening of the 1st and returning soaked in blood afterwards.
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Hey Dan O, is that photo copyrighted? Is it from a site that is copyrighted? Did you take the photo yourself or have permission from the owner and are you able to prove it? I'm just wondering, since you were very insistent in ensuring everyone obeys the rules on photo use on JREF. So, whose is the photo Dan O, is it yours?
 
Kestrel said:
This interview was before they figured out that Rudy Guede was involved.
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Um, no it wasn't.

And I'm sorry, I still don't see any evidence of coersion in anything Giobbi said.


And I'm also wondering, perhaps Kestrel can tell us, in Kestrel's World, what crime detection methods ARE police allowed to use?
 
Kestrel said:
This interview was before they figured out that Rudy Guede was involved.

At this point, Patrick Lumumba was still one of the guilty parties.
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I still don't understand your objections, Kestrel. The authorities originally had the wrong people. The first thing that happened was RS recanting his alibi after they proved it to be false. Suspect one, correct. Then the second witness gave them the name of the wrong person as the third suspect. Suspect two, correct; suspect three, incorrect.

It took them some time to put together the evidence that exonerated Mr Lumumba.

This entire time, AK and her mother knew that Mr Lumumba was innocent and yet they did nothing. AK sat behind bars, patiently waiting for the real third person to get caught, probably expecting her "vision quest" statement to get her out. So, for two full weeks, she waited for the "stupid policemen"1 to put the unflushed toilet2 together with the real third suspect. After all, she'd mentioned the toilet to Meredith's English friends as well as in her email of 04 NOV 2007.3 What took them so long to pick up RG's trail?

In part it's the confidence that you have them displaying, Kestrel. The authorities appear to me to have been confident that after two very brief interviews that they had scored the trifecta of Sollecito, Knox and Lumumba. They suspected the first two from the moment they found out they couldn't explain their presence at a cottage with nobody home and a corpse locked inside a bedroom. But, in the face of AK's deliberate attempts to mislead them, their best interrogation techniques failed whereas the forensic evidence eventually helped vindicate them and put the correct three culprits behind bars.

Note to any prospective murderers out there: Don't lock the body of the victim inside a room of a house that you rent. You will bring no end of grief upon yourself.

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1. Mr Sollecito said: "Raffaele don't walk about with a knife, if the police find it on you who knows what they may think."
His son replied: "Well, they have already questioned me and they didn't even find it on me, those stupid policemen." (Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-Foxy-Knoxy-insists-wasnt-house-horrors.html )

2. DNA evidence also linked him [RG] to an unflushed toilet. (Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...oxy-Knoxys-role-Meredith-Kerchers-murder.html )

3. i noticed the **** that was left in the toilet, something that definately [sic] no one in out [sic] house would do. Her email mentions the unflushed toilet more than once: (Source: http://perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?p=9173#p9173 )
 
halides1 said:
From an interview of Douglas Preston by Candace Dempsey

http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/archives/131443.asp

My co-writer Spezi and I believe the Monster of span Florence is a lone psychopath. He killed seven couples, fourteen people. He mutilated the women and cut off their sex organs. Really horrifying. A psychological profile prepared by the American FBI of the Monster stated that he is a lone killer. All the Italian forensic psychologists stated he was a lone killer. And all the evidence gathered at the crime scenes pointed to a single perpetrator. But this is too simple for Mignini. He believes the Monster killings were the work not of a lone killer but a satanic sect dating back to the Middle Ages. His theory, based on nonexistent evidence, supposition and conspiracy logic, was that this sect was operating in high places in government and they needed female body parts to perform Black Masses…

In the Monster case, prosecutors leaked evidence to the papers that turned out to be false. One of the cops working closely with Mignini on the Monster case was actually indicted for falsifying the tape of an interrogation…

You have no idea what it is like to be interrogated. It is a frightening experience. It is easy to break you down. Mignini interrogated me for two hours, demanding I confess to a crime I did not commit, and it was terrifying. He is a powerful interrogator. I could imagine what would happen to a 20-year-old who has been pressured for 14 hours. She could break down and say things, anything, just to stop the interrogation. They really browbeat you.
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Oh yes, that was the famous interview by FOA Candace Dempsey where Preston said he could tell Raffaele was innocent just by looking at a photo of him. The interview where Dempsey and Preston shamelessly plugged his book (keeerching).

Give us a break with the Preston trash. If I was heading the Narduci case case I'd have dragged Preston and Spezi in too. Conversations between Preston and Spezi overheard by police suggested that the pair had been planting evidence at the crime scenes in order to support the whacky theory for their book. Now, when you pervert evidence in a serious ongoing murder investigation, which is a CRIME by the way, you bet you're going to get unwelcome attention from the police and investigating magistrate. They were also suspected of witholding information relevant to the enquiry. To compound things further, Spezi was caught by a policeman wiring up a hidden tape recorder under his clothing before going into his interview with the magistrate (Mignini), which is also ILLEGAL. Spezi ended up going to jail. Mignini didn't put him there. He was put there by a court judge.

But of course, Precious Preston continues to whine about it due to his inflated sense of self importance and entitlement leads him to believe he should be perfectly allowed to travel to foreign countries and trample all over onging murder investigations. And all he got for it was a two hour grilling??? Oh, the torture!!!
 
Fulcanelli said:
Conversations between Preston and Spezi overheard by police suggested that the pair had been planting evidence at the crime scenes in order to support the whacky theory for their book.
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I'm with you and Fiona on this one. Not only is this case entirely unconnected to Meredith's murder but it really reflects poorly on anyone trying to draw lessons about Mignini from it. It takes about five minutes to realise that both the "protagonists" are actually criminals, buffoons, or both.

Moreover, I demand equal time for Comodi, Massei, and Micheli. And, while we're at it, Bongiorno, dalla Vedova, Ghirga, and all the others whose reputations aren't in question and who saw no need to inject--I love that word, courtesy of Dan O--such muddlement into the discussion of Meredith's murder or the defence of those accused and convicted.

When we spend more time talking about two characters who have nothing at all to do with the case then there's something seriously fishy going on.
 
Hi, I'd just like to introduce myself, as I am new here. I came across this thread after many weeks of trawling the internet and trying to make sense of this fascinating case. I would just like to thank the contributors for a well reasoned debate that has, in the main, transcended some of the mud-slinging that pops up in other places.
I would particularly like to thank Fiona for the tireless efforts that she has been putting in, particularly in her summary of the "Monster Of Florence" case.
 
I don't have a reliable media link but it's reported that the trial of obstruction of justice against the Sollecito family is due to begin today. For those unacquainted with the case, there were questionable statements and decisions on the part of RS's father and sister intended to force the Perugia authorities into refraining from investigating. I wish I had more on it but the leading media outlets appear to be silent so far.
 
colonelhall said:
Hi, I'd just like to introduce myself, as I am new here. I came across this thread after many weeks of trawling the internet and trying to make sense of this fascinating case. I would just like to thank the contributors for a well reasoned debate that has, in the main, transcended some of the mud-slinging that pops up in other places.
I would particularly like to thank Fiona for the tireless efforts that she has been putting in, particularly in her summary of the "Monster Of Florence" case.
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I second that thanks to Fiona.

I knew nothing of this case before this thread(other than it happened) and was inclined to give AK the benefit of the doubt but after a while the lies and evidence just became overwhelming.

The only thing AK's defenders seem to be able to do is try to poke holes in small inconsequential details or just accuse the whole Italian justice system of corruption, neither approach seems likely to do Amanda any good.
 
Maybe we should spin off a seperate thread where we can all tell Fiona how we feel about her?
 
shuttlt said:
Maybe we should spin off a seperate thread where we can all tell Fiona how we feel about her?
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Er....I won't pretend it is not nice that people are recognising the work I have put in to this thread , cos it has been quite time consuming. But I am not sure I really want to hear what some of the folk on this thread think about me, if it is all the same to you ;). I do not want the "mask of a satan worshipper" applied to my face :p
 
Fiona said:
Er....I won't pretend it is not nice that people are recognising the work I have put in to this thread , cos it has been quite time consuming. But I am not sure I really want to hear what some of the folk on this thread think about me, if it is all the same to you ;). I do not want the "mask of a satan worshipper" applied to my face :p
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Keep up the good work Fiona. :)
 
Preston's "photodiagnosis" is pretty totally idiotic. :eek: Is he a psychic now or what?

And what Fiona said about Spezi and Preston confronting the Sardinian with his theory to his face and Preston quaking in terror before Mignini: yeah, that is indeed quite funny. I never saw that in relation, but yeah, it did make laugh out loud.

Edited because I misunderstood Fulcanelli, thanks to Fiona for pointing that out.
 
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Kestrel said:
It's clear that you don't recognize psychological woo.
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That is a complete non-sequitur. But you are good at those

To come back to the point you actually raised. Do you now concede that the brutality you alleged has no foundation; or are you going to actually produce any evidence?
 
Moss said:
Where did you get the information that they actually did plant evidence? Thus far I have only heard the allegation, nothing to prove that they did indeed plant anything. Did you somehow see a transcript of the wiretappings? If the police did find Spezi and Preston do something illegal, why wasn't Spezi convicted?
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As I remember the only person convicted was the prosecutor who filed these charges, Giuliano Mignini.
 
Moss said:
Where did you get the information that they actually did plant evidence? Thus far I have only heard the allegation, nothing to prove that they did indeed plant anything. Did you somehow see a transcript of the wiretappings? If the police did find Spezi and Preston do something illegal, why wasn't Spezi convicted?
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Spezi was convicted of obstructing justice, overturned at appeal. I think some aspects of the whole messy business are still ongoing. Personally I don't see why this is important. If one court found them guilty and one innocent clearly there was some kind of case to answer. If there was some kind of case to answer then it's right and proper that they found the whole experience pretty unpleasant. Being convicted of obstructing justice in the investigation of a long running serial killer is serious stuff.

Now, if there is evidence that the charges were dishonestly cooked up, evidence planted/concealed etc. by Magnini and co, I'm all ears. I assume there isn't since the only charge he's answering is overstepping his authority by approving a wiretap (acquitted at the first trial, convicted when the prosecution appealed).

Incidentally, I've been meaning to say this for a little while, I don't think the cultists/satanists thing is quite as insane as it's made to appear. Peoples genitals were getting cut off and breast tissue sent through the post. When you combine that with a suggestion of a conspiracy to protect the killer I can see why the idea might have had some plausibility to it.
 
Kestrel said:
As I remember the only person convicted was the prosecutor who filed these charges, Giuliano Mignini.
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No. Giuttari was convicted as well. As mentioned Spezi was convicted and then acquitted. Mignini has received a suspended sentence and will doubtless appeal the result of the appeal.
 
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Fiona said:
That is a complete non-sequitur. But you are good at those

To come back to the point you actually raised. Do you now concede that the brutality you alleged has no foundation; or are you going to actually produce any evidence?
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Why did the interrogation have to happen in the wee hours of the morning?

If it was just asking questions, it could have waited for everyone to get a good nights sleep. They needed to soften up the defendant, stress her out until she was in an irrational state.

We know Amanda was awake at 1:30 AM. We know she was awake at 5:30 AM. And we know it took some time to extract the statement for her to sign. How rational are you after less than four hours of sleep, even without people yelling at you?

I also want to know how do you decide what is truth and what is fiction in Amanda's statements? You can't believe all of her 5:30 AM statement because it doesn't add up. So is the rule that whatever shows her to be most guilty must be the truth?
 
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