Should the Senate Filibuster rules be changed?

[Brainster]

and finally, as far as I am concerned, the only TRUE barometer of the pulse of the average American and the will of the people, is the vote on Election Day.

Easy prediction: Parky will forget all about this statement come November.

 

[Thunder]

Easy prediction: Parky will forget all about this statement come November.

wrong. not because we will keep our majority in both the House and the Senate (which we will), but because I am an honest guy.

 

[mortimer]

that's just dumb. dumb, dumber, and even more dumb.

Why? The American people spoke that they want the Democrats to implement anything they promised during the elections, right? Why should the Republicans get a say in it at all?

 

[Sporanox]

I was more talking about your statement, "They don't want it because it will drive up prices and be a huge windfall for insurance companies." I have heard that, but don't know where it comes from. I hear that a public option would kill the private insurance companies (which I doubt), not help them. And reduce costs.

Where did I say this?

AND I don't think that poll says what you think it says. It says a majority of those polled "... say Congress should drop health care reform and focus on more immediate ways to improve the economy and create jobs." It does not say that they do not want the bill, just that there may be other priorities.

There are other priorities, so 61% of Americans want Congress to drop the bill. In legislative speak that is killing the bill.

Here's another poll for you:

Public support for health care reform continues to decline, as 34 percent mostly approve, while 54 percent mostly disapprove, compared to 53 - 36 percent disapproval December 22.

"Support for President Barack Obama's health care reform continues to decline marginally and now only about one in three voters say they mostly approve of the pending legislation. Opposition seems mostly driven by those who think the plan under consideration is too ambitious. The whole health care issue showcases the Grand Canyon-like divide opened up among the electorate," said Peter A. Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute.

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1295.xml?ReleaseID=1413

More than half of America doesn't like this bill.

 

[Sporanox]

Easy prediction: Parky will forget all about this statement come November.

He already forgot about it come Brown's win in Massachusetts.

 

[Thunder]

Why? The American people spoke that they want the Democrats to implement anything they promised during the elections, right? Why should the Republicans get a say in it at all?

you are right. The Republicans should just stay home. No point coming in to work.

hell, they might as well just all quit.

is this what your are getting at?

 

[Thunder]

He already forgot about it come Brown's win in Massachusetts.

by what basis do you have to suggest that if the Democrats lose control of the Senate, I will take back my assertion that a filibuster should be broken by 55 instead of 60 votes?

 

[Sporanox]

by what basis do you have to suggest that if the Democrats lose control of the Senate, I will take back my assertion that a filibuster should be broken by 55 instead of 60 votes?

What does that have to do with your statement that

and finally, as far as I am concerned, the only TRUE barometer of the pulse of the average American and the will of the people, is the vote on Election Day.

As far as I know, the Brownout constituted both an election day and an indication of people's feelings about the bill across America - given that Massachusetts is a fairly liberal state.

 

[Peephole]

Every one? Really?

Oh you mean like Gruber!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-hamsher/how-the-white-house-used_b_421549.html

But by all means. Clearly the CBO that said the original stimulus would keep unemployment below 8% is on the ball!

Again, I don't really care that you think you know better than the CBO and probably every health care economist out there.

Read carefully, I'm talking about you. Not what other people are saying about different plans.

I must have missed that bill, you'd think it would have made the news.

CBO and JCT estimate that the direct spending and revenue effects of enacting the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act would yield a net reduction in federal deficits of $130 billion over the 2010-2019 period.

...

By 2019, CBO and JCT estimate, the number of nonelderly people who are uninsured would be reduced by about 31 million, leaving about 24 million nonelderly residents uninsured (about one-third of whom would be unauthorized immigrants). Under the legislation, the share of legal nonelderly residents with insurance coverage would rise from about 83 percent currently to about 94 percent.

http://cboblog.cbo.gov/?p=426

And here's more on premiums:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/11/congressional_budget_office_re.html

 

[WildCat]

He already forgot about it come Brown's win in Massachusetts.

If you want to see cluelessness, just watch Howard Dean in this video:

 

[WildCat]

CBO and JCT estimate that the direct spending and revenue effects of enacting the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act would yield a net reduction in federal deficits of $130 billion over the 2010-2019 period.

...

By 2019, CBO and JCT estimate, the number of nonelderly people who are uninsured would be reduced by about 31 million, leaving about 24 million nonelderly residents uninsured (about one-third of whom would be unauthorized immigrants). Under the legislation, the share of legal nonelderly residents with insurance coverage would rise from about 83 percent currently to about 94 percent.

http://cboblog.cbo.gov/?p=426

And here's more on premiums:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/11/congressional_budget_office_re.html

As has been pointed out to you, the CBO goes by the projections provided by Congress. Since the CBO statement we had the Nelson bribe, the Louisiana purchase, and the union buyout.

The $500 billion in Medicare cuts alone that won't ever happen (but which are included in the CBO estimate) will kill the "deficit reduction".

 

[Thunder]

As far as I know, the Brownout constituted both an election day and an indication of people's feelings about the bill across America - given that Massachusetts is a fairly liberal state.

most sophisticated analysiseeeees of Brown's victory show that it was less a referendum against Obama and for Republicans, and more a vote against the poor choices and stupid statements of the Democratic candidate.

don't expect Kerry to be losing any time soon.

 

[Peephole]

As has been pointed out to you, the CBO goes by the projections provided by Congress. Since the CBO statement we had the Nelson bribe, the Louisiana purchase, and the union buyout.

Here's a number of figures, I have no idea about their accuracy:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/big-fat-story/2009-11-23/health-care-payola/

They count up to $3.835 billion. Let's make it $5 billion! That reduces the deficit reduction from $130 billion to a $125 billion.

Well that sure changes the whole package!

The $500 billion in Medicare cuts alone that won't ever happen (but which are included in the CBO estimate) will kill the "deficit reduction".

Says you.

 

[theprestige]

it really is kinda dumb to base legislation on simple polls. i mean, its one thing if several independent and diverse polls show 90% of the population against something, that would be one thing.

I confess I am in awe of parky's brilliant campaign strategy. Step One: Let's not go out and ask people what they think of a policy proposal, before we pursue it!

but random..infrequent polls? i don't think so. the greatest TRUE reflection of the will of the American people...is votes.

Step Two: Let's wait until voting day to find out if people really want to vote for us or not!

Pure genius, I tell you! Too bad Obama doesn't have parky76 for his campaign manager right now!

 

[Thunder]

Pure genius, I tell you! Too bad Obama doesn't have parky76 for his campaign manager right now!

 

[ARubberChickenWithAPulley]

i59% of the American electorate voted for a Democratic legislative agenda in the Senate. this is beyond doubt. almost 60% of the House is also Democratic.

this speaks to the will of the American people.

Good thing the Senate isn't supposed to speak for "the will of the American people" -- that's what the House is for. The Senate speaks the will of the people of each state. Big difference. The will of "the American people" as a whole is only half of the process for a reason.

Nobody is stopping that 60% of the American people from creating a health system in their own state. If people in California want to ensure everyone is covered, they can do it. Nobody is even stopping them from creating some sort of regional, multi-state system with willing states.

 

[WildCat]

Says you.

It's already happening. Medicare payments to doctors were supposed to go down by 21% Jan. 1, but was pushed back to March now.

Would you like to make a bet that it wll be pushed back again before it takes effect? Winner gets to pick the loser's avatar for 2 weeks?

 

[Giggywig]

My father suggests that we pass a new rule, that a filibuster cannot take place until there has been a week of breathing room and time out.

And then, if they still wanna filibuster, it can be broken by 55 Senators..and not 60.

This way, the Senate cannot be held hostage by 41 Senators, which is a clear minority. 45 votes is more representative of the Senate, and of the will of the American people.

what u guys think?

Was your father in favor of changing the rules when the shoe was on the other foot and the Repubs were threatening the "Nuclear Option?"

 

[ponderingturtle]

exactly. 41% of the Senate, which could represent 25% of the American people, should not be able to impose its will on the rest of the country.

So 31% is what you need for that?

Of course this is the senate so it can be much much less a percentage, as california and Wyoming have the same representation but california is more than 60x the pop it.

 

[ponderingturtle]

No, the majority are also against the House and Senate health bills: http://www.allheadlinenews.com/arti...gress Should Start Over On Health Care Reform

Americans want them to start over. Less than 40% of Americans support the current bills.

No one is going to start over. We are just going to have to deal with double digit health care cost increases until the ecconomy collapses in a more serious fashion than the minor issues of the past 2 years.