And then you go and drop this EPIC FAIL on us. Does anyone have a photo of Jesus Face-Palming? Because this reaches a new level of: Even-the-Son-of-God-Is-Disappointed.
I don't agree, though, that not having all the info regarding the cameras...distance-to-camera, and lens sizes....results in the comparisons being completely meaningless.
WP's given me a hand getting this screen capture. This is a little visual aid showing a satellite view of the street Bob Heironimus and Bob Gimlin live on. As you can see, they live literally nine houses from each other...
As we know Bob and Bob are still friends. BH is the only person ever to have claimed to have been Patty and as the DAZ and Poser 7 animations show, BH could fit Patty.
Would you lie about a friend who can walk nine doors down the street and box your ears in? BG could literally open the door and yell "I'm no liar!" and BH would hear it. What are the odds that BH is lying about his friend down the street?
Excellent effort though. Judging from those images it would appear that "patty" is shorter than McClarin. Anyone care to estimate numbers on height based on these comparisons images alone? (which would be excellent to compare with the photogrammetry methods)
Agreed. I agree with the various sources that show Patty had a full height of about 6'3" and a walking height in a slouch of around 5'10' or so. I think for any rational thinking person, the notion that Patty could not have been an average human in a suit has been totally destroyed.
I should have time to post that later tonight, Lyndon. I got a little sidetracked....I just spent a lot of time posting on Jref.....responding to an onslaught of kk's garbage posts.
He went into "posting overdrive"....basically throwing every piece of nonsense, distortion, and smokescreen that he could find/think of, at my 'elbow-reach' analysis.
It's amazing the lengths that he'll go to, to try to hold-on to his beliefs.
LOL. What a hoot. Sweaty and his one supporter, Lyndon the thug. Even the owner of that forum thinks you're a detriment to Bigfootery. I suppose you won't be sharing with SFB members that you refuse to allow JREF members to verify your measurements. Nice job parroting me. You're the one clinging to the absurd notion of one faulty physics software unable to handle the simple task of three-dimensional rotation to deny the animations of two showing Patty having normal human proportions. Maybe you can go to the amazing length of using a real physical object to show Poser 7 violates the laws of physics. I predict you won't be doing that anytime soon.
Feel free to show any nonsense, distortions, and smokescreen in posts #176, #184, and#187. You can't and you won't.
Sweaty @ SFB said:
It IS a joke... To the scoftics, everything is an indicator of a hoax!
One example...
"Roger and Bob went out into the wilderness, looking for Bigfoot....and just happen to encounter one....how convenient! It must be a hoax!"
and then they'll argue...
"If Bigfoot does exist, then someone should have gotten some good pictures of them, by now! It must be a myth!"
That's sharp stuff, Sweaty. Here's another indicator of a hoax...
Roger swipes the art of Morton Kunstler illustrating the William Roe story which he puts in his Bigfoot book in 1966. Less than a year later Roger in failing health and finances along with Bob went out into the wilderness with the horse of the only guy who ever claimed to be with them (a friend of Bob's who lives nine houses from him) while making a film on Bigfoot and Roger just happens to come back with a film and story matching nearly verbatim the encounter with the female Bigfoot featured prominently in that book he just put out. How convenient! He then tours the film around the country with a wig-wearing fake Apache guide who is sometimes Bob, sometimes a stand-in trying to sell the film.
How's that for an indicator of a hoax?
Yeah, Sweaty, it's not rocket science. If there is a species of massive land mammal living all over the North American continent, we should have a lot more than a wealth of clear images, we should have bones and a type specimen, as well.
Roger did not get a clear picture of one, he got a shaky film taken from a distance of an ambiguous figure which could easily be a human in a suit despite all your flailing to the contrary. Come back with a picture of a Bigfoot that you can tell the color of eyes it has and we'll talk. Or would you rather keep scribbling on the IMAX footage of the crew member?
I fixed-up this image that Odinn posted the other day.......replacing the Patty image with a nice, clear Cibachrome version of it.....and, I highlighted Patty's left leg...to show that it's straight, vertically...
The reason I highlighted that, is because there is actually a variation in a person's 'walking height'....due to a 'bobbing up and down' as the supporting leg bends and straightens.
It can be seen in this stabilized animated-gif, that I just put together...
So, there should actually be a 'minimum walking height', and a 'maximum walking height'...to be a little more precise about the matter.
In the Frame 352 comparison with Jim, Patty appears to be at her maximum walking height.
Edited to add:
One really cool thing to notice, in the animated-gif...is one of Heironimus' gafs.
It's been reported that he said that he had to turn his upper body, to look at Roger, because the shoulder/suit padding interfered with his ability to turn his head freely......BUT....in this gif....when it came to looking back in the direction she was walking......we can see that Patty turned her body back in the forward direction first, BEFORE turning her head back in the forward direction.
She kept looking at Roger, after she turned her upper body back 'straight'.
It can be seen a little more distinctly in this video clip...(although, there is still a better version of it on Youtube)...
That contradicts Bob's claim...that he had to have his body turned to the side, in order to turn his head in that direction.
Edited for Rule 6. Please do not repost the same images again and again, especially if they are large images. They make the board slow to load, especially for members with dial-up connections. If you wish to use the same images again and again, use links, as above.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic Posted By: Tricky
The leg is obscured.. How can you claim the knee is not bent ?
Besides, Bob is clearly bent at the waist and leaning forward.. Hardly at his maximum walking height ..
This is JREF Sweaty, not some place like SFB where facts don't matter ...
It's been reported that [Heironimous] said that he had to turn his upper body, to look at Roger, because the shoulder/suit padding interfered with his ability to turn his head freely......BUT....in this gif....when it came to looking back in the direction she was walking......we can see that Patty turned her body back in the forward direction first, BEFORE turning her head back in the forward direction.
She kept looking at Roger, after she turned her upper body back 'straight'.
I consider this a point in Sweaty's favor... that is, assuming that Bob H. actually made this claim. I'd like to see a transcript or listen to the interview before I concede that Bob was mistaken on this point. The figure's head does indeed turn back while the torso remains forward.
I consider this a point in Sweaty's favor... that is, assuming that Bob H. actually made this claim. I'd like to see a transcript or listen to the interview before I concede that Bob was mistaken on this point. The figure's head does indeed turn back while the torso remains forward.
I thought Patty couldn't turn her head much and had to rotate her torso.
Krantz:
"One of the things it did when it turned around that was rather interesting, is that it turned it’s head and chest at the same time, very much like an Ape does. Now if I hold myself up in a very proper human pose, you find that not only is my mouth higher than my shoulder, but my chin is high than my shoulder and if I turn my head like so, my jaw does not run into my shoulder, it can go right over it. An Ape is not built that way. An Ape is built like this <Krantz lowers his head and raises his shoulders to ear levels> only a much deeper jaw. When the Ape turns to the side, it’s jaw runs into it’s shoulder. If the Ape is going to look father than running into it’s shoulder, he’s going to have to tip his head way back and look over his shoulder. If you look at it in the zoo’s, you see them doing that or it turns the head and it’s shoulders <together> at the same time. Well that’s what the creature in that Patterson film was doing."
You're welcome, Lucas. I would like us to agree here to a specific time for you to call Bob Heironimus on my behalf, read to him the email I sent to his wife's work email address, and request permission to give me his email. You can also give him one of my email addresses which I will send to you by PM. After you have spoken with Bob, I would like you to PM me with his response.
I consider this a point in Sweaty's favor... that is, assuming that Bob H. actually made this claim. I'd like to see a transcript or listen to the interview before I concede that Bob was mistaken on this point. The figure's head does indeed turn back while the torso remains forward.
"Heironimus also confirmed that he had to turn his entire torso, instead of just his neck because of how he was constrained in the suit."
And just from looking at Patty's profile, you can see that her lower jaw/chin is well out in front of her body...there doesn't appear to be any real interfernce between the alleged "padding" and the head...
Grover may have also overlooked...(just like Bob did )...the '2nd half' of the turn-and-look sequence....not noticing the order in which Patty turned her upper-torso and head, back in the forward direction.
To me, the real question here is...if this was Bob just doing a little acting....why would he have delayed turning his head back forward, even for 2 or 3 seconds, after his upper-body was turned back facing forward???
Being......allegedly....uncomfortable to turn his head only, why wouldn't he simply have turned back forward all in one eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaasy, comfortable motion?
This looks more to me like a wild creature continuing to look...for a specific reason....curiosity.
I fixed-up this image that Odinn posted the other day....replacing the Patty image with a nice, clear Cibachrome version of it.....and, I highlighted Patty's left leg...to show that it's straight, vertically...
The leg is obscured.. How can you claim the knee is not bent ?
Besides, Bob is clearly bent at the waist and leaning forward.. Hardly at his maximum walking height ..
This is JREF Sweaty, not some place like SFB where facts don't matter ...
Notice how Sweaty evades Greg's point about the critical flaw in his statement. No, we don't know if Patty's leg is going straight down vertically unbent. The leg is obscured.
Further, I don't know what is supposed to be accomplished by...
1) Posting a comparison of Jim and Patty where Patty is on the foreward side of a ridge or mound of uneven ground behind a pile of wood debris while Jim is on the backside of the ridge with his legs half obscured.
2) Posting another LMS gif which again shows Patty's legs obscured by wood debris where her head goes down a bit. Maybe it's a change in posture, maybe it's a change of uneven ground which I can't see. Seeing neither her knees, feet, or the ground makes it impossible to discern.
What the heck is that?
Oh, I know. That's Sweaty looking for a distraction to quibble about rather than face the fact his inhuman proportions goop has been flushed.
Grover may have also overlooked...(just like Bob did )...the '2nd half' of the turn-and-look sequence....not noticing the order in which Patty turned her upper-torso and head, back in the forward direction.
So you have Kal Korff saying that Heironimus said something. You don't have a direct quote and you're quoting a guy that we know makes $#!% up for his own agenda. That's OK, let's run with it. Korff is trying to account for the look back that Grover has famously said was the sign of an ape-like animal with an ape neck and shoulders.
Has it occured to you that whether or not Heironimus actually said the suit made it difficult to turn only his head, of course he is going to turn his whole body? How else are we going to get a money shot of the creature's ridiculous tummy rocks and face from a distance if bob doesn't do that?
To me, the real question here is...if this Bob just doing a little acting....why would he have delayed turning his head back forward, even for 2 or 3 seconds, after his upper-body was turned back facing forward???
Being......allegedly....uncomfortable to turn his head only, why wouldn't he simply have turned back forward all in one eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaasy, comfortable motion?
Quibbles n' bits. You're grabbing at straws. Pay attention to the bolded - allegedy. If if he did say that he was uncomfortable, if he said that, it still doesn't mean anything if his head was in an uncomfortable position for a moment. Go ahead and show me where Bob has only his head turned to the camera after the look back for a full 2 or 3 seconds. The look back is the money shot. Roger would have Bob focused on it. Roger is not going to be thinking about Grover's future observation, he just wants the tummy rocks and face on camera. Bob, himself, said the whole thing was uncomfortable. So Bob moves one way or the other and you're trying to make it into what you want. You try and quibble over things like this while ignoring the major indicators of hoaxing. You're desperate.
This looks more to me like a wild creature continuing to look...for a specific reason....curiosity.
That would be the fortean addiction. It's the same thing that makes you see ice debris off a shuttle and think that it's a secret Earth kabal shooting top secret particle beam weapons at an alien spacecraft in orbit. You might want to try and see if you can work on that a bit.
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