Merged Has this structural engineer been debunked? / Astaneh-Asl "melting of girders"

bill smith said:
Well....something like that maybe. lol. I'll fill you in bit by bit.
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No, you've already done that. You know that if you spread your beliefs out over time, they will seem more reasonable. Arguing in isolation about DNA tests or the melting point of steel or controlled demolition techniques doesn't seem crazy at all. The problem is that none of it fits together in any coherent way.

Why not lay your cards on the table, and tell us the whole story, from the beginning. Who was behind it? How did they plan it? Why did they do it? Remember, this narrative needs to include ALL of the anomalies that you consider to be smoking guns, otherwise, all the heated arguments you've participated in here were a complete waste of time.

Make sense to you?
 
Telltale Tom said:
I am surprised that they managed to persuade the hundred of engineers from SEAoNY that worked down there to look the other way and I am surprised that we have not uncovered any evidence of them being briefed before the attack. SEAoNY wew there immediately after the attack so they must have been in the know. Also its dissappointing that we have only 5 PE's from NY state that have signed the ae911truth petition. Have these guys really not looked at the evidence. Its pathetic really.
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I still get the impression that you can't comprehend where these attacks happened, IN NEW YORK CITY. How many engineers could have walked to GZ? Probably a lot. How many were involved in the construction and renovations in the towers? Probably a lot. How many NY engineers think your agenda is garbage? A lot.
What is pathetic is that you pretty much answer all of your own questions here.
SEAoNY is HQ'd 25 blocks north of GZ in Greenwich Village (BTW)
Robertson's firm is two blocks away.


I'm curious though..
Which state is represented the most and with how many members?
 
Justin39640 said:
I still get the impression that you can't comprehend where these attacks happened, IN NEW YORK CITY. How many engineers could have walked to GZ? Probably a lot. How many were involved in the construction and renovations in the towers? Probably a lot. How many NY engineers think your agenda is garbage? A lot.
What is pathetic is that you pretty much answer all of your own questions here.
SEAoNY is HQ'd 25 blocks north of GZ in Greenwich Village (BTW)
Robertson's firm is two blocks away.


I'm curious though..
Which state is represented the most and with how many members?
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I believe Talltale Tim is a satirist. I'm not the first to say it, but I think he is having a subtle joke at the expense of our Truther friends.
 
Telltale Tom said:
Its Richard that tells us about the thermite in the pile and it seems a very convincing argument that it is thermite.
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Tom, don't forget to tell her, billsmith, about the break through loaded gun where Gage is getting the Pulitzer Prize in February for breaking the thermite story.
 
Brainache said:
I believe Talltale Tim is a satirist. I'm not the first to say it, but I think he is having a subtle joke at the expense of our Truther friends.
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Yeah I noticed people speculating that.
I'm actually split on the issue but I'd rather be safe than sorry. :D
 
JHarrow said:
Particularly interesting is this bit

How exactly did the fires in 7 do that?
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Why are the dolts who spew the lies of 911 truth never able to present evidence or answer questions about 911?

thum_12447460d8430f0ca9.jpg


They have no clue the engineer of the OP is against their moronic delusions. Posting idiotic statements when the engineer is against their anti-intellectual movement of stupid ideas.

The engineer debunks 911 truth and a truth sympathizer ask a moronic question and like flies more truthers come to pile on the delusions and ask more stupid questions.
 
RedIbis said:
Really? You think it's more important to find out someone's belief than find out why the pile got as hot as it did and stayed so hot? This is supposed to be a skeptic's forum where belief has little value.
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This has been explained to you before.

The water couldn't get to the fire to effeciently reduce the heat.
 
bill smith said:
Well isn't it obvious ? The clue is that there had to be a heck of a lot of nanothermite present in the WTC. Harrit estimated at least 100 tons in order to account for the total volume of steel microsphres in the dust. So how does a perp get that much nenothermite into a WTC Tower unseen ?

Simple. The core olumns were hollow (box columns) all the way to the 88th floor where they changed to H-beams. So all the perps had to do was drill holes here and there in selected columns and pump or spray the nanothermite inside, even filling the columns in some cases.From those paint tanks on wheels maybe. So the perp could be leaning on a desk chatting to a secretary while the nanothermite was a-pumpin'- see ? So that accounts nicely for how the large quantity of NT was brought in and planted unseen or at least unnoticed.

Then at a certain point seconds prior to collapse they ignited the NT working from bottom to top completely melting the column sections- one melted section dropping down into the basement through the hole left by the column underneath that had melted just before it. In this way they may have melted around 50-60% of the core columns. There may have been 12-15,000 tons of molten iron bubbling in the basements.

That's how the rubble pile stayed so hot for so long.
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This link might help you understand fire a little more. It also helps to reiterate what I have been telling you for months.

http://firechief.com/mag/firefighting_waterjet_technology_cuts/

The water couldn't get to the fire.
 
It was actually a very interesting fire, apart from the tragedy it represented.

The fire was largely anaerobic, as the plume chemistry revealed the combustion to be pyrolitic in nature -- so smothering it with water wouldn't work. That only leaves putting enough water on it to lower its temperature. Well, the burning material massed about 100 to 150 thousand tons... and it wasn't particularly permeable. So it's not an easy fire to fight.

We've made references to these papers dozens and dozens of times over the years, but it seems we need to again -- see the DELTA group from UC Davis, which did the most thorough analysis as well as synthesized results from other papers. While unusual, the Pile fire is in absolutely no way mysterious. It has been explained. Without therm*te, without micro-nukes, without the fantasy of the day. Years ago.

The nice thing about science is that it obviates the need to keep going over old ground. The rules of hypothesis testing make it very, very clear when one's objections raise to a sufficient level of interest to reopen an investigation. The Truthers have never even approached that standard.
 
Sam.I.Am said:
Interesting. Any idea at how fast it cuts on average (different materials and all that) in feet per hour?
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About as fast as a camel will go through the eye of a needle. Articles like that (and Mackey's post above) are not designed to fool critical thinkers. They are designed to offer a way out to people who do not want to believe that 9/11 was an insde job.

Mike Rivero put it best..

"Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of a corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all."

"Propaganda is not meant to fool the intelligencia, it is merely meant to provide them an excuse to avoid seeing ugly realities, they’d sooner not believe.”-- Goebbels I think.
 
bill smith said:
About as fast as a camel will go through the eye of a needle. Articles like that (and Mackey's post above) are not designed to fool critical thinkers. They are designed to offer a way out to people who do not want to believe that 9/11 was an insde job.

Mike Rivero put it best..

"Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of a corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all."

"Propaganda is not meant to fool the intelligencia, it is merely meant to provide them an excuse to avoid seeing ugly realities, they’d sooner not believe.”-- Goebbels I think.
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New record for Bill here, quoting two jew-hating hitler-lovers in the same post.
 
bill smith said:
About as fast as a camel will go through the eye of a needle. Articles like that (and Mackey's post above) are not designed to fool critical thinkers. They are designed to offer a way out to people who do not want to believe that 9/11 was an insde job.

Mike Rivero put it best..

"Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of a corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all."

"Propaganda is not meant to fool the intelligencia, it is merely meant to provide them an excuse to avoid seeing ugly realities, they’d sooner not believe.”-- Goebbels I think.
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Dear Bill,
Please stop posting idiotic drivel like that, it only makes people think less of you. Mackey posted a link to a University study on the nature of the fires in the WTC rubble which is actual evidence, You replied with rhetorical cow crap propaganda. You aren't fooling anyone with this rubbish. Grow up.
 
bill smith said:
Sam.I.Am said:
Interesting. Any idea at how fast it cuts on average (different materials and all that) in feet per hour?
Click to expand...
About as fast as a camel will go through the eye of a needle. Articles like that (and Mackey's post above) are not designed to fool critical thinkers. They are designed to offer a way out to people who do not want to believe that 9/11 was an insde job.
Click to expand...

Water jets cutting steel:







Consider Bill beaten like a red-headed stepchild (metaphorically speaking, not literally).
 
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RedIbis said:
Really? You think it's more important to find out someone's belief than find out why the pile got as hot as it did and stayed so hot? This is supposed to be a skeptic's forum where belief has little value.
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BasqueArch said:
I've never really understood this Alice In Wonderland logic. The underground fires lasted months , all thermite is consumed in less than a minute.

The long-lasting fires is evidence that Thermite Was Not Used. Why do truthers insist on drawing attention to their quarter-baked reasoning skills.
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RedIbis said:
You show me where I said anything about thermite or keep your eighth-baked potshots out of this.
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So then you disagree with Kevin R. Ryan, James R. Gourley and Steven Jones that:
Thermite explains the fires at WTC that could not be put out for months. Yes or no.
​

"For months after the destruction at the World Trade Center
(WTC) on 11th September, 2001, the fires at Ground Zero
(GZ) could not be put out, despite the following facts. …

… The characteristics of these un-extinguishable fires have
not been adequately explained as the results of a normal
structure fire, even one accelerated by jet fuel. Conversely,
such fires are better explained given the presence of
chemical energetic materials, which provide their own fuel
and oxidant and are not deterred by water, dust, or chemical
suppressants.

…The presence of energetic materials, specifically energetic
nanocomposites, at GZ, has the potential to explain much
of the unusual environmental data seen at the WTC.
Thermite, discussed briefly above, is such a pyrotechnic
mixture that cannot be easily extinguished and is a common
component of energetic nanocomposites."


http://www.springerlink.com/content/f67q6272583h86n4/fulltext.pdf
 
Brainache said:
Dear Bill,
Please stop posting idiotic drivel like that, it only makes people think less of you. Mackey posted a link to a University study on the nature of the fires in the WTC rubble which is actual evidence, You replied with rhetorical cow crap propaganda. You aren't fooling anyone with this rubbish. Grow up.
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It's just bill smith's way of admitting he's lost the argument. He hasn't got anything relevant left to offer, so he offers something completely irrelevant. Every time he posts the Mike Rivero quote, it's one more failure.

Dave
 
bill smith said:
Then at a certain point seconds prior to collapse they ignited the NT working from bottom to top completely melting the column sections- one melted section dropping down into the basement through the hole left by the column underneath that had melted just before it. In this way they may have melted around 50-60% of the core columns. There may have been 12-15,000 tons of molten iron bubbling in the basements.

That's how the rubble pile stayed so hot for so long.
Click to expand...

Of course, if they had melted from the bottom, the buildings would have collapsed from the bottom up, but don't let Newton stand in the way of your silly ideas, Bill.

Your theory of events just gets dumber and dumber, albeit entertaining. Continue...

Perhaps with some insight on how large sections of both cores stood for several seconds following the main collapse on melted column sections which were blindingly white hot, but gave off no light...

:popcorn6
 
R.Mackey said:
It was actually a very interesting fire, apart from the tragedy it represented.

The fire was largely anaerobic, as the plume chemistry revealed the combustion to be pyrolitic in nature -- so smothering it with water wouldn't work.
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The problem is that truthers are convinced that a thermite reaction is the only possible kind of anaerobic fire.
 
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