Merged Has this structural engineer been debunked? / Astaneh-Asl "melting of girders"

RedIbis said:
Really? You think it's more important to find out someone's belief than find out why the pile got as hot as it did and stayed so hot? This is supposed to be a skeptic's forum where belief has little value.
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Any discussion of anomalies in the 9/11 narrative are meaningless without context. We could spend months arguing about what color shirt Dick Cheney wore that day, for instance, but that effort would be wasted if no one is able to articulate WHY the color of his shirt is important.

Neither you nor Bill nor any other truther is able to state what they believe happened on 9/11. All but a few mental midgets among your group knows deep down that their beliefs are utterly foolish and make no sense in the real world, and stating them in public will make that evident to everyone. Staying silent allows you all to cling, however tenuously, to your cherished beliefs.

As I've said to another truther, the content of what you say is not as important as the tactics you use to avoid saying anything of real substance.
 
sylvan8798 said:
Since Flight 93 eventually DID take off, and since the cameras were on WTC 1 and WTC 2 ALL DAY, why was the "appointment" window so freaking small?

Ok, this theory is moronic.
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It's got to be the grand bull moose of all non-sequiturs. "Several airliners crash into buildings, which naturally leads to all of us being putty in Dick Cheney's hands."

"Moronic" is giving it too much credit.
 
aggle-rithm said:
Not really. You left out a lot of details. How does molten steel fit into all this?
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Well isn't it obvious ? The clue is that there had to be a heck of a lot of nanothermite present in the WTC. Harrit estimated at least 100 tons in order to account for the total volume of steel microsphres in the dust. So how does a perp get that much nenothermite into a WTC Tower unseen ?

Simple. The core olumns were hollow (box columns) all the way to the 88th floor where they changed to H-beams. So all the perps had to do was drill holes here and there in selected columns and pump or spray the nanothermite inside, even filling the columns in some cases.From those paint tanks on wheels maybe. So the perp could be leaning on a desk chatting to a secretary while the nanothermite was a-pumpin'- see ? So that accounts nicely for how the large quantity of NT was brought in and planted unseen or at least unnoticed.

Then at a certain point seconds prior to collapse they ignited the NT working from bottom to top completely melting the column sections- one melted section dropping down into the basement through the hole left by the column underneath that had melted just before it. In this way they may have melted around 50-60% of the core columns. There may have been 12-15,000 tons of molten iron bubbling in the basements.

That's how the rubble pile stayed so hot for so long.
 
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bill smith said:
Well isn't it obvious ? The clue is that there had to be a heck of a lot of nanothermite present in the WTC. Harrit estimated at least 100 tons in order to account for the total volume of steel microsphres in the dust. So how does a perp get that much nenothermite into a WC Tower unseen ?

Simple. The core olumns were hollow (box columns) all the way to the 88th floor where they changed to H-beams. So all the perps had to was drill holes here and there in selected columns and pump or spray the nanothermite inside, even filling the columns in some cases.From those paint tanks on wheels maybe. So the perp could be leaning on a desk chatting to a secretary while the nanothermite was a-pumpin'- see ? So that accounts nicely for how the large quantity of NT was brought in and planted unseen or at least unnoticed.

Then at a certain point seconds prior to collapse they ignited the NT working from bottom to top completely melting the column sections- one melted section dropping down into the basement through the hole left by the column underneath that had melted just before it. In this way they may have melted around 50-60% of the core columns. There may have been 12-15,000 tons of molten iron bubbling in the basements.

That's how the rubble pile stayed so hot for so long.
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So your theory, in a nutshell, is:

Planes crashed into buildings, delivering us all into the hands of Dick Cheney.

At some point, somebody pumped a hundred tons of a completely fictional substance into a building's infrastructure while chatting with a secretary.

It still seems a little sketchy. Can you expand on this a little more?
 
aggle-rithm said:
So your theory, in a nutshell, is:

Planes crashed into buildings, delivering us all into the hands of Dick Cheney.

At some point, somebody pumped a hundred tons of a completely fictional substance into a building's infrastructure while chatting with a secretary.

It still seems a little sketchy. Can you expand on this a little more?
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Well....something like that maybe. lol. I'll fill you in bit by bit.
 
aggle-rithm said:
So your theory, in a nutshell, is:

Planes crashed into buildings, delivering us all into the hands of Dick Cheney.

At some point, somebody pumped a hundred tons of a completely fictional substance into a building's infrastructure while chatting with a secretary.

It still seems a little sketchy. Can you expand on this a little more?
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Hey...remember the steel that poured out of the 81st floor of WTC2 just before it collapsed ? How do you think that happened ? A blockage ? A column didn't melt on time and the melted ones above flowed over the floor and out the window ?
 
bill smith said:
Well isn't it obvious ? The clue is that there had to be a heck of a lot of nanothermite present in the WTC. Harrit estimated at least 100 tons in order to account for the total volume of steel microsphres in the dust. So how does a perp get that much nenothermite into a WTC Tower unseen ?

Simple. The core olumns were hollow (box columns) all the way to the 88th floor where they changed to H-beams. So all the perps had to do was drill holes here and there in selected columns and pump or spray the nanothermite inside, even filling the columns in some cases.From those paint tanks on wheels maybe. So the perp could be leaning on a desk chatting to a secretary while the nanothermite was a-pumpin'- see ? So that accounts nicely for how the large quantity of NT was brought in and planted unseen or at least unnoticed.

Then at a certain point seconds prior to collapse they ignited the NT working from bottom to top completely melting the column sections- one melted section dropping down into the basement through the hole left by the column underneath that had melted just before it. In this way they may have melted around 50-60% of the core columns. There may have been 12-15,000 tons of molten iron bubbling in the basements.

That's how the rubble pile stayed so hot for so long.
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Wow! never thought of that one Bill, but that could have been how they done it. Certainly I never saw any photos of the seems of the boxes being split by the thermite. And when I worked on the pile it looked like all the boxes were normal and almost undamaged. But i would not be surprised if the cover up team hauled away any evidence as soon as it became apparent. I always wandered what was under the American flags that they ceremoniously took out from site.

But it would explain why no-one saw any damage to the core columns.

And maybe the thermite that poured out the the side of the building was from the liquid thermite in a column that flooded the floor and flowed 70ft from the core to the perimeter.

Doesn't it need oxygen to ignite, but if it doesn't maybe that explains why the pile burned for so many months it was the thermite in the columns.

I see how it makes sense to you. Nice one.. We need to get the NY State licensed engineers to hear about this so that we can get support from more than 5. Momentum is on our side.
 
bill smith said:
Hey...remember the steel that poured out of the 81st floor of WTC2 just before it collapsed ?
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It wasn't steel. It was aluminum.

bill smith said:
How do you think that happened ?
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House and office fires burn hot enough to melt aluminum. There was aluminum in the WTC (the plane, AC ducts, the cladding, various fixtures and appliances).

The explanation is painfully obvious.
 
RedIbis said:
Really? You think it's more important to find out someone's belief than find out why the pile got as hot as it did and stayed so hot? This is supposed to be a skeptic's forum where belief has little value.
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I've never really understood this Alice In Wonderland logic. The underground fires lasted months , all thermite is consumed in less than a minute.

The long-lasting fires is evidence that Thermite Was Not Used. Why do truthers insist on drawing attention to their quarter-baked reasoning skills.

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You cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into - Swift
 
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Telltale Tom said:
Wow! never thought of that one Bill, but that could have been how they done it. Certainly I never saw any photos of the seems of the boxes being split by the thermite. And when I worked on the pile it looked like all the boxes were normal and almost undamaged. But i would not be surprised if the cover up team hauled away any evidence as soon as it became apparent. I always wandered what was under the American flags that they ceremoniously took out from site.
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If you really worked on the pile you'd know what was under the flags.

I say you are a fraud.
 
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Telltale Tom said:
Wow! never thought of that one Bill, but that could have been how they done it. Certainly I never saw any photos of the seems of the boxes being split by the thermite. And when I worked on the pile it looked like all the boxes were normal and almost undamaged. But i would not be surprised if the cover up team hauled away any evidence as soon as it became apparent. I always wandered what was under the American flags that they ceremoniously took out from site.

But it would explain why no-one saw any damage to the core columns.

And maybe the thermite that poured out the the side of the building was from the liquid thermite in a column that flooded the floor and flowed 70ft from the core to the perimeter.

Doesn't it need oxygen to ignite, but if it doesn't maybe that explains why the pile burned for so many months it was the thermite in the columns.

I see how it makes sense to you. Nice one.. We need to get the NY State licensed engineers to hear about this so that we can get support from more than 5. Momentum is on our side.
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Hey Tom. I didn't realise that you were at GZ. There were supposed to be 10 miles of core columns in each footprint. Did you get that impression ? Yeah, the core columns had a factor of safety (FOS) of three so they could theorerically have melted two-thirds of them and the building would still stand . But they had to leave a half-decent amount in the rubble for show. Still far too few so they faked the breaking-the-law-and-taking-the-steel-away-to-China business in the days after 9/11. That was only so that any perceived shortfall of steel could be explained away.
 
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bill smith said:
Hey Tom. I didn't realise that you were at GZ. There were supposed to be 10 miles of core columns in each footprint. Did you get that impression ? Yeah, the core columns had a factor of safety (FOS) of three so they could theorerically have melted two-thirds of them and the building would still stand . But they had to leave a half-decent amount in the rubble for show. Still far too few so they faked the breaking-the-law-and-taking-the-steel-away-to-China business in the days after 9/11. That was only so that any perceived shortfall of steel could be explained away.
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Yeah got there once or twice, but I didn't see any split columns except a few ends. My impression was that there was lots of columns. Of course 4 times as many perimeter columns as core columns. Lots of steel and concrete taken away as fast as possible. Its standard practice whenever there is a big earthquake but of course it could also have been the big coverup as you suggest.

I am surprised that they managed to persuade the hundred of engineers from SEAoNY that worked down there to look the other way and I am surprised that we have not uncovered any evidence of them being briefed before the attack. SEAoNY wew there immediately after the attack so they must have been in the know. Also its dissappointing that we have only 5 PE's from NY state that have signed the ae911truth petition. Have these guys really not looked at the evidence. Its pathetic really.
 
BasqueArch said:
I've never really understood this Alice In Wonderland logic. The underground fires lasted months , all thermite is consumed in less than a minute.

The long-lasting fires is evidence that Thermite Was Not Used. Why do truthers insist on drawing attention to their quarter-baked reasoning skills.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
You cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into - Swift
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You show me where I said anything about thermite or keep your eighth-baked potshots out of this.
 
Telltale Tom said:
Yeah got there once or twice, but I didn't see any split columns except a few ends. My impression was that there was lots of columns. Of course 4 times as many perimeter columns as core columns. Lots of steel and concrete taken away as fast as possible. Its standard practice whenever there is a big earthquake but of course it could also have been the big coverup as you suggest.

I am surprised that they managed to persuade the hundred of engineers from SEAoNY that worked down there to look the other way and I am surprised that we have not uncovered any evidence of them being briefed before the attack. SEAoNY wew there immediately after the attack so they must have been in the know. Also its dissappointing that we have only 5 PE's from NY state that have signed the ae911truth petition. Have these guys really not looked at the evidence. Its pathetic really.
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There wouldn't have been split columns from nanothermite being used exclusively as an incendiary as it was when it entirely melted the columns. It doesn't generate pressure wen it ignites. Only blinding heat.

They can add high-tech polymers that generate gas under heat and therefore pressure extremely quickly making the NT explosive in a containment. I don't thnk that was the case in the WTC.

The perimeter columns fell outwards away from the footprint mostly. They said some were found 600-odd feet away. The length of two football fields.
 
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RedIbis said:
Really? You think it's more important to find out someone's belief than find out why the pile got as hot as it did and stayed so hot? This is supposed to be a skeptic's forum where belief has little value.
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Yeah, that's a real puzzler Red... like trying to figure out why it's so wet at the bottom of a lake.
 
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