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Szamboti's Missing Jolt paper

Edx said:
YEA.... :rolleyes:

You can lie by exaggeration but not all exaggerations are lies.

"It may be used to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression, but is not meant to be taken literally."
- wikipedia - Hyperbole

So I guess you dont want to address my point and rather TELL me what I mean rather than actually listen to me.

Good job. And you wonder why I stopped being a truther? Its because of people like you.
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So, if the firefighters' statement is not meant to be taken literally, why have debunkers used it literally?
 
vinniem said:
So, if the firefighters' statement is not meant to be taken literally, why have debunkers used it literally?
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I think if someone said there were fires on "all" floors they are wrong.

But why cant you just address the actual point here?

NO firefighters back up what truthers claim about Building 7. NONE of them provide any dissenting opinions to any of the dozens and dozens and dozens of them that actually specifically talked about WTC7 either on or after 911.

Therefore truthers have to believe that the FDNY are all liars and are covering up the truth.

Why do you keep trying to talk about something else?
 
Edx said:
I think if someone said there were fires on "all" floors they are wrong.

But why cant you just address the actual point here?

NO firefighters back up what truthers claim about Building 7. NONE of them provide any dissenting opinions to any of the dozens and dozens and dozens of them that actually specifically talked about WTC7 either on or after 911.

Therefore truthers have to believe that the FDNY are all liars and are covering up the truth.

Why do you keep trying to talk about something else?
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You conveniently overlook John Schroeder and Paul Isaac Jr.

They are both 911 firefighters who do not believe the official account of 911.
 
vinniem said:
You conveniently overlook John Schroeder and Paul Isaac Jr.

They are both 911 firefighters who do not believe the official account of 911.
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Thousands of FDNY would tell them to go pound salt in their ***.

And from before

So you think once a fire moves on the damage it did magically heals itself?
 
vinniem said:
You conveniently overlook John Schroeder and Paul Isaac Jr.

They are both 911 firefighters who do not believe the official account of 911.
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You really do not want to hang your hat on Schroeder. It will blow up in your face.
 
vinniem said:
You conveniently overlook John Schroeder and Paul Isaac Jr.

They are both 911 firefighters who do not believe the official account of 911.
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Schroeder is getting off the subject since his comments relate to the collapse of tower 1 and 2 not Building 7.

Paul Isaac Jr is also quoted by truthers as saying "I know 9-11 was an inside job. The police know it's an inside job; and the firemen know it too,"

He later denied saying that, but do you think the police department and FDNY are lying then vinniem?

Because that IS what I'm saying truthers HAVE to believe that you are apparently trying to deny.

This btw, is your Paul Issac Jr:



edit: Justin, thanks for fixing it. I did it as well :P)
 
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Edx said:
Schroeder is getting off the subject since his comments relate to the collapse of tower 1 and 2 not Building 7.

Paul Isaac Jr is also quoted by truthers as saying "I know 9-11 was an inside job. The police know it's an inside job; and the firemen know it too,"

So do you think the police department and FDNY are lying then vinniem?

Because that IS what I'm saying truthers HAVE to believe that you are apparently trying to deny.

This btw, is your Paul Issac Jr:

Click to expand...

Broken link, fixed
 
vinniem said:
You conveniently overlook John Schroeder and Paul Isaac Jr.

They are both 911 firefighters who do not believe the official account of 911.
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In his statement, below, Isaacs says you are wrong. So what? Neither says anything that supports anything but the fact that aircraft impact and fire caused collapse of the towers.

Schroeder was in the North tower when the South tower fell. He though he heard a bomb. He was wrong. So what? He provides no information that supports anything but the normal explanation for the collapse of the towers. Here's everything you need to know about Schroeder's statement.


Here's a statement from Paul Isaac Jr., printed with his permission.

So the true statement was the that I heard Explosions not bombs as I couldn't tell what the sounds were as I was blocks away and can not confirm what the noise was. As I was aproaching City Hall the North Tower began the collapse I heard what sounded like thunder just prior to the collapse then the Popping as the tower fell. I had my radio scanner and there were reports of explsions within the conplex over the PD and PAPD frequencies. As I made my way closer I could pick up on the FD Handie Talkie frequencies and it sounded like hell. No one new what the was going to happen next but when the second tower began its fall there were what sounded like loud popping coming from the tower as well as a sucking sound like reveres air pressure.
(posted 12 Aug, 2006)
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BigAl said:
In his statement, below, Isaacs says you are wrong. So what? Neither says anything that supports anything but the fact that aircraft impact and fire caused collapse of the towers.

Schroeder was in the North tower when the South tower fell. He though he heard a bomb. He was wrong. So what? He provides no information that supports anything but the normal explanation for the collapse of the towers. Here's everything you need to know about Schroeder's statement.


Here's a statement from Paul Isaac Jr., printed with his permission.
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Heres another interesting post by him:

http://letsrollforums.com/showpost.php?p=168998&postcount=5
 
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vinniem said:
Are NIST wrong then when they say fire was on 15 floors of wtc7?
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Are Barnett, Biederman and Sisson wrong then when they say that the erosion of steel was due to intergranular melting?

You're trying to have it both ways, and then some. When an initial impression says something that you think confirms the conspiracy theory (though it doesn't really), then you reject a later analysis that contradicts it. When an initial impression says something that you don't like the sound of, then you look for a later analysis that contradicts it, take that small part of the later analysis out of context, and you think that confirms the conspiracy theory (though it doesn't really). It's called cherry picking, and it won't fool anyone who actually understands the material you're deliberately distorting.

Which, by the way, is another kind of lying.

Dave
 
@Vinniem:

So then do you actually have any firefighters expressing a DISSENTING opinion to the idea that the fires were large, heavy damage to the south side and that they all believed it would collapse?
 
Edx said:
I think it can still be engulfed without being on every floor. Im sure the firefighters were using hyperbole but not by much.
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People using hyperbole on possibly the most chaotic day in recent history? I'll go with the quote mined, out of context, means what I want it to mean interpretation thank you very much.
 
vinniem said:
You conveniently overlook John Schroeder and Paul Isaac Jr.

They are both 911 firefighters who do not believe the official account of 911.
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And they know where Tony the realcddeal's missing jolt is? Why is it when the chief missing jolt engineer leaves a vacuum causes truther "engineers of delusions" to run in and post off topic tripe to make 911 truth look so truthy?

Missing jolt stuff? Can you tell Tony where his missing jolt is or are you just Spamming JREF because you were banned before and need to troll before you esplode? Are you a former JREF member? Why are you off topic? Do you have some engineering junk to save Tony from the pit of ignorance the 911 truth Jones Journal of woo?

Topic was the missing jolt paper not your delusions on opinions and hearsay.
 
leftysergeant said:
The bottom part was still heavier on the side opposite the tilt, so the center of gravity remained within the line of perimeter columns.
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For the perimeter columns to be relevant, they'd have to be able to resist the collision between the upper and lower sections. Are you saying the columns met end to end?


W.D.Clinger said:
Physics.

First, the upper block tends to rotate about its center of gravity, which keeps it more centered than someone unfamiliar with physics would believe. Secondly, the tilt causes the side that's tilting downward to collide with the lower section before the opposite side does. Hence most of the energy needed to destroy the lower section's resistance comes from that side; by the time the opposite side collides with the lower section, the top floor of the lower section and its connections have already been broken and can't put up much resistance. That asymmetry tends to cancel the rotation of the upper section and could even begin to reverse it. In theory, the upper section could have gone through several reversals of rotation, bouncing from one direction of tilt to the other as it collapsed.

To know what really happened, you'd have to look at the evidence. The collapse was too complicated and too chaotic for you to trust your intuition, even if you're an engineer.
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Where does the rotational momentum go?
 
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