Haiti to become under temporary American control?

[Travis]

No, I'm sure they haven't thought of that....

Well, if they haven't thought of that, they're idiots. If they have thought of it, and complained anyways, they are acting like whinny brats seeking to get a cheap potshot in.

 

[Darth Rotor]

What the hell would the US have to gain from taking over that Hellhole of a country?

Nothing.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Obama will make Haiti a dependent state just like Puerto Rico and Israel.

No.
A. PR and Isr are different. PR is a territory, Isr is a sovereign nation.
B. Not even Obama is stupid enough to want to take on a basket case as a dependent. WJ Clinton wasn't dumb enough to either, and his wife is Sec State. There is plenty of multinational, OAS, and multilateral interest in Haiti to where the US can be helpful, but can let someone else take the lead.

DR

 

[Darth Rotor]

The U.S. has a most dubious history with Haiti. Perhaps that's what Jane was getting at.
Perhaps we could help by proxy.

You are right. It was a dubious operation to toss out the military coup and restore the president (Aristide) elected by the people of Haiti. WTF was Bill Clinton thinking? Didn't he know he'd be on the wrong side of history, and excoriated as Haiti's new version of Hitler?

For all that is cheeseburgers, please, bring back the real Haitians, the scions of the Duvaliers!

Not your best post ever, quarky.

DR

 

[Darth Rotor]

No, I'm sure they haven't thought of that....

Neither, it appears have Médecins Sans Frontières or CARICOM.

The doctors without borders aren't the people I'd expect to "get" logistics. They are good at that medicine thing.

Look up this term: MOG, JJane. It has real meaning, and is a physical constraint in flowing air traffic bearing aid into, and out of, any area, or airhead, and turning things around so that more stuff can come in.

Edited by Tricky: 

Edited for Rule 12.

DR

 

[Thunder]

Haiti got any oil? natural gas?

it seems their only natural resource is vast amounts...of sunlight and misery.

 

[theprestige]

The French complain about having a plane refused landing. What I want to know is if the French understand the idea that there is only so much space at the airport?

I think it's more about thinking they should get privileged access, and some other, less important, aid group should be turned away.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Haiti got any oil? natural gas?

it seems their only natural resource is vast amounts...of sunlight and misery.

They have nearly cornered the voodoo export market. Not talking about the graphics card.

 

[shadron]

Haiti got any oil? natural gas?

it seems their only natural resource is vast amounts...of sunlight and misery.

Yup, perhaps that's true. But one need only run to the other end of the same island and see the difference that relatively stable and competent government can make. E. O. Wilson, the Harvard biologist, had a film made of walking from the DR side of the border over to Haiti - the jungle gave way, like the edge of a waterfall, to a wasteland. The people on the Haiti side were stripping the forest down to nothing just trying to scratch a living. It was simply pitiful. You can even see the effect with google Earth or google maps.

Here is the CIA's economic precis on Haiti:

Haiti is the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere with 80% of the population living under the poverty line and 54% in abject poverty. Two-thirds of all Haitians depend on the agricultural sector, mainly small-scale subsistence farming, and remain vulnerable to damage from frequent natural disasters, exacerbated by the country's widespread deforestation. While the economy has recovered in recent years, registering positive growth since 2005, four tropical storms in 2008 severely damaged the transportation infrastructure and agricultural sector. US economic engagement under the Haitian Hemispheric Opportunity through Partnership Encouragement (HOPE) Act, passed in December 2006, has boosted apparel exports and investment by providing tariff-free access to the US. HOPE II, passed in October 2008, has further improved the export environment for the apparel sector by extending preferences to 2018; the apparel sector accounts for two-thirds of Haitian exports and nearly one-tenth of GDP. Remittances are the primary source of foreign exchange, equaling nearly a quarter of GDP and more than twice the earnings from exports. Haiti suffers from high inflation, a lack of investment because of insecurity and limited infrastructure, and a severe trade deficit. In 2005, Haiti paid its arrears to the World Bank, paving the way for reengagement with the Bank. Haiti is expected to receive debt forgiveness for about $525 million of its debt through the Highly-Indebted Poor Country (HIPC) initiative by mid-2009. The government relies on formal international economic assistance for fiscal sustainability.

And the Dominican Republic:

The Dominican Republic has enjoyed strong GDP growth since 2005 and continued to post sound gains through mid-2008. The global recession, however, had a significant impact on GDP growth in the latter half of the year as tourism and remittances, two of the Dominican Republic's most important economic contributors, showed signs of slowing. The economy is highly dependent upon the US, the destination for about two-thirds of exports. Remittances from the US amount to about a tenth of GDP, equivalent to almost half of exports and three-quarters of tourism receipts. The country has long been viewed primarily as an exporter of sugar, coffee, and tobacco but in recent years the service sector has overtaken agriculture as the economy's largest employer due to growth in tourism and free trade zones. Although 2007 saw inflation around 6%, the rate grew to over 12% in 2008. High food prices, driven by the effects of consecutive tropical storms on agricultural products, and education prices were significant contributors to the jump. The effects of the global financial crisis and the US recession are projected to negatively affect GDP growth in 2009 with a rebound expected in 2010. Although the economy is growing at a respectable rate, high unemployment and underemployment remains an important challenge. The country suffers from marked income inequality; the poorest half of the population receives less than one-fifth of GNP, while the richest 10% enjoys nearly 40% of national income. The Central America-Dominican Republic Free Trade Agreement (CAFTA-DR) came into force in March 2007, which should boost investment and exports and reduce losses to the Asian garment industry.

 

[portlandatheist]

Haiti got any oil? natural gas?

it seems their only natural resource is vast amounts...of sunlight and misery.

Haiti was just gearing up to become a significant garment producer and exporter. They would have had a strategic advantage over Asian producers with their proximity to the states. They were experiencing strong economic growth and looked like they were right on the verge of getting on the road out of poverty before this tragedy occurred making it all that much more painful.

 

[JihadJane]

Well, if they haven't thought of that, they're idiots. If they have thought of it, and complained anyways, they are acting like whinny brats seeking to get a cheap potshot in.

I was being sarcastic. The implication of your question, that the French (or anyone) could be incapable of understanding the idea that there is only so much space at an airport, is surreal.

Haiti got any oil? natural gas?

it seems their only natural resource is vast amounts...of sunlight and misery.

Haiti's people and natural resources have made a lot of people very rich. Its wealth has been systematically looted for over two centuries.

For example, Aristide calculated that the French owed Haiti $21,685,135,571.48, money extorted from Haiti by force.


'Why the US Owes Haiti Billions - The Briefest History'


'The Right Testicle of Hell: History of a Haitian Holocaust

Blackwater before drinking water'

 

[Pardalis]

If you read on Aristide's history, he was one of the most corrupt governement in the world, maybe he should give back the money he stole to his country? Also, he used intimidation to win his elections (it's rather easy to win in a landslide when the opposition boycotts the elections) and curbed any dissent with violence.

In 2000 Aristide was re-elected president with 92 per cent of the vote following a campaign that was so marked by violence and intimidation that opposition candidates boycotted the election.

[...]A 2003 Amnesty International report accuses Aristide supporters of numerous human rights abuses, many incidences of police corruption, violence against journalists and attacks on free speech.

And Palast has no evidence of US support of Duvalier after 1960. http://www.notablebiographies.com/Du-Fi/Duvalier-Fran-ois.html#ixzz0d4vYd0Qv

After the 1961 elections the American government made it clear that the United States disputed the truth of the results and that Duvalier's legal term should end in 1963. During 1962 the American Agency for International Development (AID) mission was withdrawn from Haiti, and by April 1963 an American fleet moved into position close to Port-au-Prince. On May 15, to show its disapproval of Duvalier's continued presence, the United States suspended diplomatic relations with Haiti, refusing to engage it in discussions of international matters.

http://www.notablebiographies.com/Du-Fi/Duvalier-Fran-ois.html#ixzz0d4vYd0Qv

 

[Darth Rotor]

Ask a Haitian if you wish:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34928950/ns/world_news-haiti_earthquake/

Haitians jammed the fence of the presidential palace grounds to gawk and cheer as U.S. troops emerged.

"We are happy that they are coming, because we have so many problems," said Fede Felissaint, a hairdresser.

Given the circumstances, he did not even mind the troops taking up positions at the presidential palace. "If they want, they can stay longer than in 1915," he said, a reference to the start of a 19-year U.S. military presence in Haiti — something U.S. officials have repeatedly insisted they have no intention of repeating.

A week after the magnitude-7.0 quake struck, killing an estimated 200,000 people, the port remains blocked and while the flow of food, water and supplies from the city's lone airport to the needy is increasing, it remains a work in progress. Tens of thousands of people sleep in the streets or under plastic sheets in makeshift camps. Relief workers say they fear visiting some parts of the city.

Rampaging looters

Just four blocks from U.S. troop landing at the palace, hundreds of looters were rampaging through downtown.

"That is how it is. There is nothing we can do," said Haitian police officer Arina Bence, who was trying to keep civilians out of the looting zone for their own safety.

 

[dudalb]

And if the US did not send any troops, Jihad Jane would blast us for that.

 

[Pardalis]

And Jihad, you never did answer my question:

Let me ask you a question, Jihad, how would you go about protecting the Haïtians? Remember that their military and police are also almost homeless themselves.

 

[JihadJane]

There are mixed feelings about allowing the US to take control of Haiti:

"International aid agencies have warned that Haitians are dying needlessly amid "utter chaos" in the organisation of relief efforts after last week's devastating earthquake. Some have called for the US to take direct control over the rescue operation, while others have said the Americans are part of the problem."

Haiti aid agencies warn: chaotic and confusing relief effort is costing lives
Operations delayed as vital supplies fail to get through at Port-au-Prince airport


"As aid starts to trickle in, and the extent of the horror becomes known, decisions are already being made that will affect the Haiti that emerges from this. Ansel Herz reports live from Port-Au-Prince on the role that the deployed US troops are playing, while author Peter Hallward weighs in on the role that the US has played in Haiti's recent history and shares his concerns that post-earthquake Haiti will further cement the domination of the Haitian people by foreigners."

Haiti: Guns or food?

Presence of US troops provides both hope of relief, and fear of continuing legacy of US domination VIDEO - 10 minutes.

 

[Cynic]

There's an important difference between "taking control of Haiti" and "fulfilling critical functions within Haiti". That probably doesn't matter much from a public perception standpoint, but it's there.

 

[JihadJane]

There's an important difference between "taking control of Haiti" and "fulfilling critical functions within Haiti". That probably doesn't matter much from a public perception standpoint, but it's there.

True, but one can easily drift into the other.

 

[Thunder]

And if the US did not send any troops, Jihad Jane would blast us for that.

yes. they would DEMAND that we send in troops to aid in the security situation.

we are ****ed when we do..and ****ed when we don't. so we might as well DO.

 

[JihadJane]

yes. they would DEMAND that we send in troops to aid in the security situation.

we are ****ed when we do..and ****ed when we don't. so we might as well DO.

Where have I said that the US shouldn't send any troops?