Continuation - The PG Film - Bob Heironimus and Patty

[SweatyYeti]

HAHAHA! My measurements are irrefutable! No one will ever be able refute them! HAHAHA!

HAHAHA! My measurements are irrefutable! No one will ever be able refute them! HAHAHA!

And no one will ever be able to SHOW that this overlay is significantly inaccurate...HAHAHA!HAHAHA!HAHAHA!HAHAHA!......

(Not even Pooper7.....or Vort! HAHAHA! )


This AG shows that mirror-imaging a human being can actually have a high degree of accuracy to it.....Bob's body-width doesn't change at the waist...

The same principle applies to Patty. Patty is 100% symmetrical...whether she's a real, live, "100% Perfectly Symmetrical Bigfoot", or a "100% Perfectly-Symmetrical-Bob-In-A-Suit".......mirror-imaging her body can produce an accurate look at her actual elbow-to-elbow length.

(Which just happens to far exceed Bob's....HAHAHA!HAHAHA!HAHAHA! )

 

[Vortigern99]

Lens size differences, degree of digital compression, improper scaling between the two images, padded suit distorts location of actor within, mirror imaging distorts real dimension of the figure(s), blurred image distorts true size and shape, etc. etc.

Also, Access Denied wrote this in the UFO thread, and I find it a succinct explanation of Sweaty's major failing:

... In science your “data” must be shared openly so that others may independently replicate it in order for your conclusions to be considered credible.

So... how did you derive those numbers, Sweaty-poo?

 

[Óðinn]

What last nail in what coffin?

What are the other nails that are already in this coffin that you speak of?

1) The dearth of evidence that BF exists
2) The improbable timeline of the PGF
3) Patterson's history/inconsistencies/coincidences
4) Gimlin's inconsistencies
5) The confession of BH
6) Missing reels/footage
7) Film/trackway/footprint discrepancies
8) Patty's human proportions (BH fits)
want more?

I was actually speaking figuratively re the last nail. I don't necessarily agree with all of these nails, yet.

I understand your confusion since for you the coffin is in the ground. Your "hobby" lies in how & why the bigfooters keep supporting the PGF in spite of the coffin nails, correct?

 

[kitakaze]

So... how did you derive those numbers, Sweaty-poo?

Here is a picture of a real live Bigfoot. This Bigfoot is 8'2" with a shoulder width of 32". The collar bone is 27" long. This Bigfoot's elbow measures about 27-28" away from its backbone, with its arm swung-out at only a 40-45-degree angle, approximately. These numbers are irrefutable and nobody here will ever refute them, I promise.

BTW, do not bother asking me the method by which I established these numbers because nobody at the JREF will be allowed to verify them.

IRREFUTABLE! HAHAHA!

 

[kitakaze]

HAHAHA! My measurements are irrefutable! No one will ever be able refute them! HAHAHA!

And no one will ever be able to SHOW that this overlay is significantly inaccurate...HAHAHA!HAHAHA!HAHAHA!HAHAHA!......[/I]

The Sisko needs some Ibuprofen...

These Rorshach's are pure idiocy. Sweaty, you have a Rorshach of Bob filmed from the front with a Rorschach of Patty that you before told us was Patty at 40° angle of view. Regardless what the exact angle was, it is not shot directly from behind. Where the image bisects at the shoulders is not along the spine, but rather to the left of it, creating an unreal thing with artificial wideness. Comparing that to a Rorschach of Bob is utter stupidity and completely meaningless.

Nevermind that the left elbow of the P7S seen from behind reaches down the same as Patty's right arm in Sweaty's angled Rorschach creation. See post #151.

 

[kitakaze]

Bumping this for Lucas who is signed in and viewing this thread now...

I don't know what the deal is with Lucas but what I do know is that he has logged in today several times since the night before last when he wrote that and I made my request. Each time he's gone right to this thread and made no response. Not a "sorry, I was busy today," or an "I'll call him later," or anything. What I do know is that we have a young man coming here and telling us he is in regular communication with Bob Heironimus, yet showing no indication of doing anything to confirm that fact.

I would very much like to believe Lucas' claim, but I find myself in doubt based on his lack of response while remaining present.

What's the deal, Lucas?

 

[kitakaze]

1) The dearth of evidence that BF exists
2) The improbable timeline of the PGF
3) Patterson's history/inconsistencies/coincidences
4) Gimlin's inconsistencies
5) The confession of BH
6) Missing reels/footage
7) Film/trackway/footprint discrepancies
8) Patty's human proportions (BH fits)
want more?

I was actually speaking figuratively re the last nail. I don't necessarily agree with all of these nails, yet.

I understand your confusion since for you the coffin is in the ground. Your "hobby" lies in how & why the bigfooters keep supporting the PGF in spite of the coffin nails, correct?

I would like to ask you, Óðinn, which of those nails you don't agree with and also what percentage you would give for the likelihood of BH being Patty?

 

[GT/CS]

The Sisko needs some Ibuprofen...

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=173&pictureid=1371[/qimg]

These Rorshach's are pure idiocy. Sweaty, you have a Rorshach of Bob filmed from the front with a Rorschach of Patty that you before told us was Patty at 40° angle of view. Regardless what the exact angle was, it is not shot directly from behind. Where the image bisects at the shoulders is not along the spine, but rather to the left of it, creating an unreal thing with artificial wideness. Comparing that to a Rorschach of Bob is utter stupidity and completely meaningless.

Nevermind that the left elbow of the P7S seen from behind reaches down the same as Patty's right arm in Sweaty's angled Rorschach creation. See post #151.

He knows that.

Kit, I'm sure you know one of the definitions of insanity. Something about expecting a different result.....

 

[HarryHenderson]

Let me give you a little rundown on the scenario....

...I am going to meet with Bob Heironimus and that is where the answers to get somewhere will be found, not on blobs on film. The answers are with the people involved, and whether you like it or not, Bob Heironimus had an involvement with Patterson and Gimlin and he's the only one ever to claim to be Patty.

I can only marvel at and respect the patience and energy you're exerting keeping up with Sweaty, debunking his assertions literally post by post. But you could have saved all that work had you let your above post be the last one on that particular matter.

Seriously, the potential knowledge and information you could glean from a direct 'encounter' with Bob H. is untold. The entire Bigfoot Industry™ could fall to its knees and come to a screeching halt if you could somehow come away from such a meeting with compelling, intelligent and believable evidence that he was in fact 'Patty'. I've said it before, if someone could righteously debunk (Greg Long wasn't righteous enough) the PGF, Bigfoot as we know it is 86.

Mr. Kitakaze Q. Smartley III could and would become truly famous, rich I'm not so sure, if he could bring back evidence from the wilds of downtown Yakima that the evidence we've been using as evidence really isn't evidence as much as it's evidence there's no evidence it can be used as evidence, and stuff.

 

[SweatyYeti]

kitakaze wrote:

Where the image bisects at the shoulders is not along the spine, but rather to the left of it, creating an unreal thing with artificial wideness.

You're absolutely right, kitakaze...as far as the shoulders being wider...(proportionally speaking)....in my mirror-imaged Patty, than they are in the actual Patty.

Nonetheless...the subject of the comparison was/is the elbow, not the shoulder.


But.....here's the real BEAUTY in what you just wrote, kitty......(and I thank you for saying it)......is that by pointing out an error in the shoulder area, rather than pointing to the waist....you just unwittingly admitted to the FACT that there is NOT an error of any appreciable/significant amount lower down, at the waist, on the mirror-imaged Patty.

And that is where the elbows are located....down, close to the waist...(where the 'degree of accuracy' in the mirror-image is at it's highest.)


Thanks for the passive APPROVAL!

Patty's elbows are indeed spread apart significantly wider than Bob's, with their arms out at comparable angles.

 

[SweatyYeti]

HH wrote:

I can only marvel at and respect the patience and energy you're exerting keeping up with Sweaty, debunking his assertions literally post by post.

NEWS FLASH for Harry........kitakaze just gave his approval to the comparison.....at the area where the elbows are located.

 

[kitakaze]

The whole thing is messed, Sweaty. Head to toe. Here is the original image...

Now what we have below is P7S fitting Bob head to toe, elbows included, then viewed from the back in a pose matching Patty from the back. Most importantly P7S fits Bob while at the same time P7S' left elbow reaches just the same as Rorshach Patty's right arm...

If Sweaty's elbow reach foo foo had any merit, this could not be possible. The angle Rorshach creation is simply worthless.

 

[kitakaze]

NEWS FLASH for Harry........kitakaze just gave his approval to the comparison.....at the area where the elbows are located.

Oops for you. P7S' left elbow matches Rorschach Patty's right.

911, Sweaty! 911!

 

[SweatyYeti]

kitakaze wrote:

The whole thing is messed, Sweaty. Head to toe.

But you pointed to the shoulder........kitty.....NOT THE WAIST...

And for good reason....there is no appreciable error at the waist.


You correctly bypassed it. Thanks, Champ!

 

[SweatyYeti]

kitakaze wrote:

Now what we have below is P7S fitting Bob head to toe

Wrong, kitty.

This graphic shows that the Pooper7 skeleton violates a Law of Physics...

The skeleton doesn't fore-shorten anywhere near the amount that it MUST fore-shorten, to properly represent a physical object.


In addition to that....Poopie's right shoulder-joint is placed incorrectly....it's placed right at the 'outer edge' of Patty's right shoulder....when it should be 'inboard' of Patty's apparent shoulder-joint, by at least 2-3 inches....due to Patty's extra upper-body/shoulder width.

As a result...it is INCORRECTLY representing the length of what Bob's humerus bone would have to have been, if he were Patty.


In addition to that....the scaling for Patty is too small. The graphic is showing Patty's 'walking height' to be about 5'9 -5'10".....when 2 different methods of measuring Patty's height show her 'walking height' to be in the range of about 6'1" to 6'5".


Your beloved skeleton......your only HOPE for Bob.....is Crap.

 

[kitakaze]

I have taken three Gravol and I am prepared for this merrygoround...

Wrong, kitty.

This graphic shows that the Pooper7 skeleton violates a Law of Physics...


[qimg]http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w28/SweatyYeti/Skeletal%20Crap/VortWidthCorr5A.jpg[/qimg]

Nice stills there. I can play broken record, too. Poser 7's physics engine is fine. So is DAZ Studio's. Two programs - full animation.

1) Mangler's Poser 7 overlay animation: 0:00 - 0:05 seconds.

2) Neltana's youtube DAZ Studio overlay animation: 1:30 - 1:35 seconds.

Sweaty addressing those...

Sweaty using mangler or neltana's instructions to get the software up and running...

Sweaty showing a physical object in the exact same positions as the overlays and showing significantly more foreshortening...

Sweaty providing the people to whom he claims his measurements are irrefutable the means by which he made his measurements...

The skeleton doesn't fore-shorten anywhere near the amount that it MUST fore-shorten, to properly represent a physical object.

You're in the ring, on the mat in a haze, disoriented, and Slatty McPosty is frantic, reaching its slat out to you over the ropes...

Tag Slatty, man! Tag Slatty!

In addition to that....Poopie's right shoulder-joint is placed incorrectly....it's placed right at the 'outer edge' of Patty's right shoulder....when it should be 'inboard' of Patty's apparent shoulder-joint, by at least 2-3 inches....due to Patty's extra upper-body/shoulder width.

As a result...it is INCORRECTLY representing the length of what Bob's humerus bone would have to have been, if he were Patty.

That's nice. P7S is not supposed to be Patty's actual skeleton, just a demo that you can fit a normally proportioned human skeleton can fit there, not just in one or two frames, but over a great many. The fit isn't perfect.

Show me a correction to the model takes the skeleton out of average human range and call me in the morning.

In addition to that....the scaling for Patty is too small. The graphic is showing Patty's 'walking height' to be about 5'9 -5'10".....when 2 different methods of measuring Patty's height show her 'walking height' to be in the range of about 6'1" to 6'5".

S * L * O * U * C * H * I * N * G

Your beloved skeleton......your only HOPE for Bob.....is Crap.

You forgot to put an "s" at the end of skeleton. Two skeletons, two 3D physics program available two, two full animations. Get back to me when you're ready two stop scribbling fail on stills, and actually deal with that reality.

 

[kitakaze]

But you pointed to the shoulder........kitty.....NOT THE WAIST...

And for good reason....there is no appreciable error at the waist.


You correctly bypassed it. Thanks, Champ!

In typical intellectually dishonest fashion, you completely ignored the entire body of that post after that sentence.

Simple question, Sweaty - is the P7S seen from behind that has the left elbow matching your Rorshach Patty's right elbow inhumanly proportioned? Yes or no.

 

[kitakaze]

I can only marvel at and respect the patience and energy you're exerting keeping up with Sweaty, debunking his assertions literally post by post. But you could have saved all that work had you let your above post be the last one on that particular matter.

Seriously, the potential knowledge and information you could glean from a direct 'encounter' with Bob H. is untold. The entire Bigfoot Industry™ could fall to its knees and come to a screeching halt if you could somehow come away from such a meeting with compelling, intelligent and believable evidence that he was in fact 'Patty'. I've said it before, if someone could righteously debunk (Greg Long wasn't righteous enough) the PGF, Bigfoot as we know it is 86.

Mr. Kitakaze Q. Smartley III could and would become truly famous, rich I'm not so sure, if he could bring back evidence from the wilds of downtown Yakima that the evidence we've been using as evidence really isn't evidence as much as it's evidence there's no evidence it can be used as evidence, and stuff.

Thanks for the kind words, Harry.

In Sweaty's case you have a desperate person living in a bizarro reality who comes here simply to taunt people like a child. No one will ever refute my measurements. You ask the guy to explain how he made them and he's flipping you the bird. Hmmm... who's on the bad guy team? How can Sweaty act like that and not know he's on the bad guy team?

As far as my meeting with Bob, it will happen. This Lucas kid obviously seems to have come here thinking he could drop a chalupa. I don't think he had any idea that he'd run into someone that was actively seeking out communication with Bob. It's been 42 years since the film was made and 6 years since Greg Long's book came out and Heironimus entered the collective consciousness of Bigfootery. The most important developements to have happened in the last six years all revolve around the revelations of the connections between Patterson, Gimlin, and Heironimus. Patterson is gone but Gimlin and Heironimus remain and they live nine fricking houses apart.

What we need is to have the right people in the right place doing the right kind of digging. What I think is best for me to do at this point is forget about what obviously seems to have been lies and snail mail Heironimus my plan and contact. We need to shake this $#!% up and that's the way we're going to do it. Let's give Bigfootery something to really talk about.

 

[William Parcher]

1) The dearth of evidence that BF exists
2) The improbable timeline of the PGF
3) Patterson's history/inconsistencies/coincidences
4) Gimlin's inconsistencies
5) The confession of BH
6) Missing reels/footage
7) Film/trackway/footprint discrepancies
8) Patty's human proportions (BH fits)
want more?

I was actually speaking figuratively re the last nail. I don't necessarily agree with all of these nails, yet.

I understand your confusion since for you the coffin is in the ground. Your "hobby" lies in how & why the bigfooters keep supporting the PGF in spite of the coffin nails, correct?

I thought you might say "the PGF coffin", but you went for the whole enchilada. If Bigfoot doesn't exist then Patty cannot be real. But a phony Patty doesn't mean that Bigfoot doesn't exist. You knew that and probably have seen the many Bigfooters who say that it wouldn't matter much to them if the film were shown to be a fake. These would include folks like WGBH who insist that they have seen an actual Bigfoot and there is no way that they didn't see it. They have ruled out misidentification or perceptual anomoly.

But there is a personal belief/epistemology that is tied to Bigfooters. Bigfoot isn't ruled out and universally accepted as fiction until the very last Bigfooter converts to disbelief. Bigfootery survives because we can't prove that Bigfoot does not exist. There is no coffin nail for that bit. I'm going further now to say that your "last coffin nail" really won't be that for Bigfoot and not even for the PGF. No matter how good the "definitively scientifically measured film" there would be plenty of Bigfooters who simply do not acknowledge it as a valid debunking. Of course there would also be "new Bigfooters" popping up as they do now. "Hey guys. I just saw a Bigfoot. I'm not kidding or lying. These things really are real. I now know that the skeptics are wrong."

I understand your confusion since for you the coffin is in the ground. Your "hobby" lies in how & why the bigfooters keep supporting the PGF in spite of the coffin nails, correct?

Yes and no. I've come to the understanding that there is no coffin to be buried or nailed shut. The believers will not allow a coffin to be defined and isolated so that it even could be shut and buried. A nailed and buried coffin for Bigfoot would be when everyone agrees that it doesn't exist and nobody comes forward next week to say that it does.

 

[SweatyYeti]

William Parcher wrote:

A nailed and buried coffin for Bigfoot would be when everyone agrees that it doesn't exist and nobody comes forward next week to say that it does.

It'll never happen....regarding both of those scenarios.