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Earthquake hits Haiti

dudalb said:
The 82 Airborne will oblige.

Seriosly, I think one of the major security concerns is that some of the Haitian Gang Leaders have the idea of playing "Somali WarLord" and try to seize or shake down the charity groups.
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At some point the US military will have to engage the machete-wielding Haitians.
 
i expect the situation to get much worse before it gets any better.

it seems a worse situation could not happen to a worse country.

thank God its not hurricane season.

p.s....THIS is why we should all have a good amount of water, canned food, and dry food, stored at all times. at least 7 days worth.
 
MaGZ said:
At some point the US military will have to engage the machete-wielding Haitians.
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And they will go the way the Mauser Wielding Nazis did.

Another reminder to stay on topic.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LibraryLady
 
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gethane said:
Maybe most of the US, but that obviously did not happen after hurricane Katrina.
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I did say exactly the same, I think. Water makes a gigantic difference - as snow, heavy rain, flood. Unless an earthquake brings gigantic flooding somehow (Reelfoot Lake comes to mind), it still is dry and landings are possible on the generally large road system. Structures are built to higher standards - etc. Tidal wave, I will also give you if less than 24 hour warning - but with that, you only need to get coast population inland by about 10-12 miles.
 
Library Lady beat me to this with her comment about her sig., but I've got a couple e-mails from secular groups about giving options that people here may be interested. Of course, if you prefer to give directly to the organization of your choice, ignore this.

The Center for Inquiry is accepting disaster-relief donations through its S.H.A.R.E. program to support those providing care to the survivors of the 7.0 earthquake that struck Jan. 12 near the capital city of Port-au-Prince, Haiti.
All donations—100 percent with no operating costs retained—will be sent directly to the secular aid group Doctors Without Borders, which suffered the loss of all three of its medical facilities and is working against difficulties to provide the basics of first-aid care and stabilization.
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Link:
https://secure.ga1.org/05/share_earthquake_in_haiti

Also, the Secular Students Alliance (who e-mail me for some unknown reason) report that the Foundation Beyond Belief has recommended a number of secular charities doing relief work in Haiti.

http://foundationbeyondbelief.org/blog/1

If you click on "read more" they have direct links to the recommended groups.

The situation is just so mind-bogglingly horrifying. It's going to get worse over the coming days, we can only hope that what help we can send alleviates some of the suffering.
 
Not at all trying to abuse/not obey a mod-box and I am the one who brought up the machete wielders. I brought it up because it is specifically stated by the news services (as of 3:30 -4:15 on MSNBC and CNN today) as occuring and doing so as a direct result
of the earthquake disaster that is also responsible for all the other actions/non-actions being noted. As such, it must be taken into account by the agencies going in as well as what is left of the Haitian government. Not to mention, for any who have knowledge of Haiti's history, machete and other weapon users have a rather colorful history in Haiti - as in Tonton Macoutes - of unlawful actions against citizens and aid persons in the past. This would not be a new thing. Unfortunately. But disasters often bring things like this out among those so disposed. I prefer disposing of them.

No derail of any kind was meant/suggested/intended by this it is purely here because it is happening in Haiti (per news services and directly from the disaster and it's aftereffects.
 
Arcade22 said:
And? Do you have a problem with someone disagreeing with you? Can you give me a reason why the Swedish government should send aid to Haiti when that money could go to Swedes?
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If you want to talk about Sweden, start a thread about it. I won't be joining you.

If you don't want to give to Haïti, then don't, you're free not to.

If the purpose of your contributions to this thread was to show that you're a heartless bigot, then you have made your point.
 
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Arcade22 said:
And? Do you have a problem with someone disagreeing with you? Can you give me a reason why the Swedish government should send aid to Haiti when that money could go to Swedes?
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Because the people in Haiti are starving, with no shelter, many of them have severe injuries that are not being treated, and many of them are trapped under tons of collapsed masonry.

Even the poorest people in Sweden are better off than that.

People are people. Can you give me a reason why you should refuse to help people in need just because the're a few thousand miles away from you?

Rolfe.
 
Arcade22 said:
And? Do you have a problem with someone disagreeing with you? Can you give me a reason why the Swedish government should send aid to Haiti when that money could go to Swedes?
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Probably it would be that the preferences of a large majority of Swedish society would be for its government to transfer aid to Haiti. Are you protesting through any political channels?

ETA--And the reason why a large majority of Swedes might want that could reside in their ethics/values

Do you merely disagree, or do you fail to get it at all?
 
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Rolfe said:
Can you give me a reason why you should refuse to help people in need just because the're a few thousand miles away from you?
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Because i believe that the money, resources and welfare that the Swedish people have amassed should only be shared with Swedes.
Though i can see reasons why Sweden could give aid to other countries, if they pay it back or if we got something valuable out of it.
 
Because most people answer the question "who is us" differently than you do, I am very glad to say
 
Arcade22 said:
I don't really understand why some people seem to believe that we have an obligation to help these people just because we richer than them. Why do people believe that?
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Look up John Donne and check up on whom the bell tolls for.
 
Arcade22 said:
I don't really understand why some people seem to believe that we have an obligation to help these people just because we richer than them. Why do people believe that?
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I think many of us are taught by our parents to be kind and help people weaker and more vulnerable than us. Right now it is hard to think of a people more vulnerable, so we are responding to it in the way we were raised. I appreciate that your upbringing might be a bit different. That being said, I am so glad my parents instilled kindness, charity, and liberality in me.
 
Arcade22 said:
I don't really understand why some people seem to believe that we have an obligation to help these people just because we richer than them. Why do people believe that?
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If your government donates abroad and recovers that from taxation and you're liable for tax then you indeed have a legal obligation.

But do you fail to get why people want to help the Haitians?
 
Arcade22 said:
Because i believe that the money, resources and welfare that the Swedish people have amassed should only be shared with Swedes.
Though i can see reasons why Sweden could give aid to other countries, if they pay it back or if we got something valuable out of it.
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Do you think that Swedes should not be charitable to other Swedes also?

I don't get it. Are you just against compassion, if it doesn't pay?
 
I recently heard something along the lines of "We're only nine meals away from anarchy." Seeing some of the recent video, I believe it.

But once again, ignorance can cause people to suffer. When the UN provided some nutrition bars, someone misread the expiration date, causing a panic and several people simply discarded the provided food.

I'm also very surprised that those who distribute the food don't have a plan for keeping order -- it's almost a given that desperate people would swamp the truck.
 
alfaniner said:
I recently heard something along the lines of "We're only nine meals away from anarchy." Seeing some of the recent video, I believe it.

But once again, ignorance can cause people to suffer. When the UN provided some nutrition bars, someone misread the expiration date, causing a panic and several people simply discarded the provided food.

I'm also very surprised that those who distribute the food don't have a plan for keeping order -- it's almost a given that desperate people would swamp the truck.
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Actually, they do have a plan, and that's probably why it's keeping this so slow. I've heard that some regions won't get aid until January 21. There will be no one left alive by that time. This is much too slow. Maybe the efforts are trying to have a too perfect plan, sometimes you just need to do it and worry later.

Alot of people are getting worried and restless, and I've heard many times the suggestion that they should drop food and medicine by the air. But then again, If they did, no one on the ground could secure and would be able to stop the chaos that would ensue, or stop criminal gangs from taking it for themselves.
 
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/01/15/haiti-earthquake.html

Now they're estimating the losses to be at about 200 000. And the longer it is to get aid, the worse it will get.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ted-by-UN-Spokeswoman/articleshow/5453467.cms
"This is a historic disaster. We have never been confronted with such a disaster in the UN memory. It is like no other," Elisabeth Byrs, spokeswoman of the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs said.

She noted that at least local government structures remained after the 2004 tsunami hit Indonesia's Aceh province, but in Haiti, the town of Leogane, for example, had lost all its public services in the earthquake.

[...]

No local government infrastructure remains," she said.
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There's literally nothing on the ground to help the aid from getting to where it needs to go, so they have to do two things at once, create that infrastructure from scratch, and give the aid.
 
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