Continuation - The PG Film - Bob Heironimus and Patty

[lucaschorak]

KitaKaze I sent you a message.

 

[kitakaze]

Okay, and here you are posting again. Why not PM that number to Kit say... right about now?

KitaKaze I sent you a message.

First off, my apologies for my little to no participation since just before X-mas. Hectic work schedule combined with my computer having been in the shop took me out of the mix for a while.

Lucas,

Thanks for the PM. Unfortunately, sending me a PM asking me if you should send me the three digits I asked for some time after I have repeatedly asked you for those digits is quite weird to me. I have Bob Heironimus' phone and fax number. You send me the last three digits and I confirm if you are telling the truth.

Please don't PM me asking if you should do what I asked for, just go ahead and send those last three digits.

 

[JcR]

I'm still waiting for my fence picture.

 

[kitakaze]

Lucas has sent me a PM with what are supposed to be the last three digits of Heironimus' phone number. Unfortunately, these numbers do not match the last three digits I have for Bob's phone number. I can not at this time state that the reason for the discrepancy is a fabrication on the part of Lucas, as I have not yet called the number I have for BH.

I would ask Lucas to PM me with the first name he introduced himself to Bob as and the first digit of Bob's phone number (after the area code). I should simply call the number I have right away, but it is my hope that if Lucas is in fact on friendly speaking terms with Bob, that he might be able to facilitate an invitation to Bob correspond with me.

 

[kitakaze]

William Parcher has assisted me with regards to information on Bob Heironimus and I've found that the phone and fax number I have for Bob are in fact his wife's work contact numbers. This is why the last three digits Lucas gave me did not match. I do not yet know if Lucas has truly spoken with Bob Heironimus, but I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

If Lucas is in fact in communication with Bob, I'd like to ask Lucas to act as a liason in putting me in touch with Bob. I have sent an email to Bob's wife's work email address concerning doing an interview project with Heironimus that was posted in the previous thread, but have received no reply. My assumption is that Bob's wife does not use the work email address and has not seen my mail. Lucas has told me that the last time he spoke with Bob was a month ago.

Lucas, assuming that you are telling the truth about your communication with Bob, I would like to make two requests of you...

1) I post here or in PM the previous email that I sent to Bob's wife. You either read this mail to Bob on the phone or request Bob's email address and forward it to him.

2) After Bob has seen the message, you request permission to give Bob's phone number to me to facilitate arranging the interviews and communication that I have been pursuing since last year.

I have always had the option of simply snail-mailing Bob, but have been trying to contact him through someone he is already familiar with. Over the years I'm sure there have been many Bigfoot enthusiasts that have contacted him and pestered him and I do not want him to get any such impression from me.

 

[lucaschorak]

KitaKaze do you want me to give you the first three numbers of Bob H'S phone number instead of the last three numbers?

 

[kitakaze]

KitaKaze do you want me to give you the first three numbers of Bob H'S phone number instead of the last three numbers?

By PM, sure, including the area code. Please do that. What I really would appreciate from you is a response regarding my request for you to be a liason to put me in contact with Heironimus. Also, I would like assurances that you are not somebody like little mak posing as a new person to us.

I sent you a PM regarding BH a couple of days ago and it bounced because your PM box was full. The PM box has a 150 message limit. How does a person with 27 posts that joined two weeks ago, posting only in the two BH threads, max out their PM box?

The thing is, Lucas, I have been trying to set up an interview project with Bob since last year. I am able to go to Yakima and meet with Bob in person. We have the potential to make some serious progress with Bob's claim of being Patty. We could do more in months than anything in the last six years since Long's book was published. You can help me with this, so I am reaching out to you.

 

[lucaschorak]

If you get your interview project what questions would you ask him?It says in my inbox that I'm only allowed to have up to ten messages.The only way I could get Bob H to contact you is to give me your phone number so he can call you.I'm not allowed to give out his full phone number.

 

[kitakaze]

If you get your interview project what questions would you ask him?It says in my inbox that I'm only allowed to have up to ten messages.The only way I could get Bob H to contact you is to give me your phone number so he can call you.I'm not allowed to give out his full phone number.

I guess that must be something new and temporary until you've reached as certain number of posts.

Until I am certain that you are legit, I will not be giving you my phone number. To put it bluntly, I am not convinced that you are not a mak sock - the last person I would want to have my phone number. I will give you an email that you can give to Bob to contact me personally. Will you call him on my behalf and read him the email I sent to his wife's work email?

Please send me the first three digits of his number by PM so I can see if they even make sense. Also, I asked you previously to tell me by PM the first name you gave him when you called first spoke on the phone. If I speak with Bob, I want to confirm his talking to you.

 

[kitakaze]

Lucas, here is the body of the email that I want you to relay to Bob...

...I am contacting you regarding an interview request for your husband, Bob Heironimus. I am a longtime contributor with the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF) Forum. The JREF is an organization which promotes skepticism, critical thinking, and the investigations of paranormal claims. The topic of Bigfoot is very popular there and is one of the main areas of my research. Your husband's claim of involvement in the making of the 1967 Patterson-Gimlin film is a topic of regular an in-depth discussion. Discussion there extends over several years with hundreds of pages and hundreds of thousands of people reading.

I am one of a number of skeptics that are of the position that your husband, Bob, was telling the truth with his claim of being "Patty", the man in the Bigfoot suit filmed by Roger Patterson. There are a number of issues that myself and others who support Bob's claim deal with when in debate with the many Bigfoot enthusiasts who claim your husband invented the story. I have long hoped to resolve these issues by doing an interview with Bob for the JREF which would be posted there and shown to the public on Youtube (a free global video sharing website). I am currently in Victoria, British Columbia for the summer and can easily travel to Yakima to meet with Bob. I would like to first get in contact with your husband by email and phone so that he can learn more about myself and the JREF so that he feels comfortable and knows who he is talking with. I believe I can be of great assistance in validating Bob's claims for the public and dispelling controversy surrounding the film.

I am in Canada now and can easily travel to Yakima to meet with Bob. I can provide you with contact info to give Bob by PM. Let's first establish you're telling the truth.

 

[kitakaze]

Lucas, I have an idea. Right now is a bit after 5pm pacific time. How about you give Bob a call sometime tonight, give him a rundown about the JREF and myself, read him the mail I sent his wife, and ask if you can give me his email privately for me to contact him? That would be the quick and easy way to ensure you're truthfulness. You can assure him that by sending the email to me by PM, I will be the only person to see it. It is also in my best interest to keep his email private, as I wouldn't want to do anything that could jeopardize a potential face to face meeting with Bob.

 

[lucaschorak]

I can call Bob H tomorrow.I think he doesn't like being called at night.

 

[kitakaze]

I can call Bob H tomorrow.I think he doesn't like being called at night.

Quite understandable. Please do call Bob tomorrow. Please send me the first three digits of his number and your first name you gave him when you first talked.

Lucas, do you use facebook? Possibly we can connect there.

What did you discuss the last time you spoke with him a month ago?

 

[SweatyYeti]

kitakaze wrote:

I am in Canada now and can easily travel to Yakima to meet with Bob.

But what you can not easily do is find a way to make Bob's elbows reach as far as Patty's elbows did...

Reality "TV".......Patty's elbows span 44" across, while Bob's only span about 30", with approximately the same arm-angles.



Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnng..........Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnng.....

"HI Bob.....how the heck did you do it???"

 

[Vortigern99]

What I've stated is very simple....and irrefutable.... Bob's elbow cannot possibly reach as far away from his backbone, as Patty's does. It is a physical impossibility.

No, it isn't a physical impossibility. You're simply mistaken. Patty has perfectly human proportions, as has been demonstrated numerous times by numerous people in numerous ways. The figure's "elbow reach" is well within the range of human physiology, as shown by the Poser7 animation posted in the other Bob H thread -- and so is Bob's.

Here are the numbers, in more detail...

[see upthread for images]

The measurements for Bob are very accurate... since, in addition to being taken on a clear image of Bob, they also happen to match my own measurements. I'm also 6'0" tall....of 'average build'...and fairly broad-shouldered.

Like Bob, my shoulder-joint is located 9" from my backbone, and my upper-arm measures the same length as Bob's.

One key measurement, which agrees with Bob's figure... is that, with my arm held straight out at my side... fully horizontal... my elbow measures a length of 20" from my backbone.

Okay, but that doesn't mean your body proportions are exactly the same as Bob's. Sharing the same height and, in your personal subjective opinion, "build" as Bob, does not lead to an irrefutable conclusion that your limb lengths are precisely the same.

See here: http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.1000445

Height is a result of torso length, hip length, spinal column length and femur length, all of which vary among individuals, even those who share the same height. IOW, even if you and Bob are both 6'0", your limbs, including your arms, are predictably different lengths.

So using your own measurements as an ironclad, "irrefutable" guide to Bob's measurements is your first mistake.

Patty's elbow measures about 21-22" away from her backbone, with her arm swung-out at only a 40-45-degree angle, approximately.

It's not even "maxed-out", horizontally... and it's beyond the length that Bob's elbo w can reach with his arm fully raised up, and fully horizontal.

CONCLUSION: Bob COULD NOT POSSIBLY have been Patty....beyond a shadow of a doubt.

The measurements are unaffected by any potential padding....and the difference in 'elbow reach' is beyond any potential error caused by a "Blur factor".

Please provide the work you did to arrive at a measurement of 21-22 inches between Patty's spinal column and elbow joint. Since there is no agreement among anyone investigating the PG film, even among proponents of the film, as to the height of the figure, there can be no agreement as to what constitutes an inch at any point on the picture plane.

Also, please explain how you determined the location of the spinal column underneath layers of either costume padding, skin, fat and muscle; or fur, skin, fat and muscle. Are you measuring from a central line precisely bisecting the vertebrae? On a film with low resolution of a distantly photographed figure? Even on the large, blown up still frame you're using, to my eye it looks like your line is off from center. How can you be certain that you're not measuring from the attachment point of the trapezius muscle, one to two inches laterally from the center line of the vertebrae?

See pics of the back here, keeping in mind that the trapezius runs parallel with the line of the spinal column and could be distorting your measurements: http://pubpages.unh.edu/~kst4/a4b.html

The same questions can be asked of your placement of the elbow joint, especially if the figure is wearing a suit that distorts the apparent joints of the arm. Suits of this kind have been described, and pictures presented of them, by AtomicMysteryMonster in numerous PG film-related threads. Your placement of the elbow joint is purely subjective, prone to error and in no way "irrefutable" as you claim.

Before moving on to the figure's supposedly inhuman width, you'll need do more work in the area of "elbow reach", because what you've done so far doesn't show a thing beyond that you have an overactive imagination that has so far proven to be immune to logic and rationality.

 

[SweatyYeti]

Vortigern wrote:

Patty has perfectly human proportions,

I say NOT.

I SHOW not.


You SHOW NOT a thing.

 

[SweatyYeti]

Vort wrote:

The figure's (Patty's) "elbow reach" is well within the range of human physiology, as shown by the Poser7 animation posted in the other Bob H thread

Really??

Well, this graphic shows that the Poser 7 skeletons.....are full of CRAP...

Vort......feel free to SHOW where, and to what extent, there are any errors in this graphic.

Thank you, in advance.

 

[SweatyYeti]

Vort wrote:

Okay, but that doesn't mean your body proportions are exactly the same as Bob's. Sharing the same height and, in your personal subjective opinion, "build" as Bob, does not lead to an irrefutable conclusion that your limb lengths are precisely the same.

My body and limb dimensions do not need to be PRECISELY the same as Bob's.


Reportedly, he's 6'0" tall.....and so am I.

The lengths of his collar bone, and upper-arm measure the same as mine do.

He looks like he has 'average' body proportions.....and I have 'average' body proportions, also.

Therefore, using known measurements, and a visual estimate......I KNOW for a fact that Bob's and my body dimensions are, at the very least, very close to the same.

 

[SweatyYeti]

Vort wrote:

Also, please explain how you determined the location of the spinal column underneath layers of either costume padding, skin, fat and muscle; or fur, skin, fat and muscle.

How does one find the backbone, of a "mystery animal"??????


Simple.....one draws a SIMPLE line straight down the MIDDLE of the body...

This SIMPLE procedure cuts through all manner of muscle, tissue, fat, padding, alien implants, calcium deposits, and swallowed gum.

 

[kitakaze]

Bob could fit Patty fine...