James Madison on whether or not to pay attention to James Madison

[drkitten]

Recently, one of our resident trolls has been starting a lot of threads on the subject of what James Madison would have said about various modern political issues.

So I thought I would post the following, from Wikipedia:

Madison himself believed that [the very ideas of the Founding Fathers] themselves, and the "debates and incidental decisions of the Convention,"should not be viewed as having any "authoritative character." In short, "the legitimate meaning of the Instrument must be derived from the text itself; or if a key is to be sought elsewhere, it must be not in the opinions or intentions of the Body which planned & proposed the Constitution, but in the sense attached to it by the people in their respective State Conventions where it recd. all the Authority which it possesses."

In other words, Madison himself believed that his personal opinions were irrelevant to issues of national policy, and that the source of all political authority was with the people, as expressed through their collective judgments.

Or in other, other, words, Madison himself would have considered these threads to be puerile, ill-advised, ill-thought-out, and ill-informed.

 

[Ausmerican]

Brilliant! I stand in awe. Or sit rather, I am bloody lazy.

 

[Praktik]

nice one drkitten..

 

[truethat]

Wtgo! drKitten.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Touché!

And I would add that you, Galileo, are no James Madison. (And no Galileo, for that matter.)

 

[Upchurch]

and drkitten wins Politics!

Time to turn out the lights and go home.

 

[johnny karate]

*checks the door to Politics*

*finds it locked*

Crap. I left my wallet in there.

 

[headscratcher4]

But...as we all now know...we can ignore James Madision, except for those times when we don't.

Nice job, btw!

 

[Galileo]

Recently, one of our resident trolls has been starting a lot of threads on the subject of what James Madison would have said about various modern political issues.

So I thought I would post the following, from Wikipedia:



In other words, Madison himself believed that his personal opinions were irrelevant to issues of national policy, and that the source of all political authority was with the people, as expressed through their collective judgments.

Or in other, other, words, Madison himself would have considered these threads to be puerile, ill-advised, ill-thought-out, and ill-informed.

This is a good one, Kitten, I figured a 'REFer would find this eventually, but I admit, not so quickly.

Madison said that the key to Constitutional interpretation was first:

the text

and second

the ratifying debates.

But Madison also said:

"Do not separate text from historical background. If you do, you will have perverted and subverted the Constitution, which can only end in a distorted, bastardized form of illegitimate government."

Basically, Madison was a modest guy, unlike most JREFers.

You must remember that we do not live in Madison's time, so what Madison said must be translated into the 21st century.

In the 21st century, Madison would have agreed that the Notes on the Federal Constitution were valid to use, since we have strayed so far from the text, much more than Madison envisioned.

Also, now that Madison has been annointed the Fatehr of the Constitution, what he says should be listened to. Madison spent his whole life defending and giving his informed opinions on the Constitution; as congressman, and state legislator, as Secretary of State, as President, and in retirement. He was giving these opnions because he wanted our nation to retain its liberty.

 

[Ausmerican]

This is a good one, Kitten, I figured a 'REFer would find this eventually, but I admit, not so quickly.

Madison said that the key to Constitutional interpretation was first:

the text

and second

the ratifying debates.

But Madison also said:

"Do not separate text from historical background. If you do, you will have perverted and subverted the Constitution, which can only end in a distorted, bastardized form of illegitimate government."

Basically, Madison was a modest guy, unlike most JREFers.

You must remember that we do not live in Madison's time, so what Madison said must be translated into the 21st century.

In the 21st century, Madison would have agreed that the Notes on the Federal Constitution were valid to use, since we have strayed so far from the text, much more than Madison envisioned.

Also, now that Madison has been annointed the Fatehr of the Constitution, what he says should be listened to. Madison spent his whole life defending and giving his informed opinions on the Constitution; as congressman, and state legislator, as Secretary of State, as President, and in retirement. He was giving these opnions because he wanted our nation to retain its liberty.

pssst reread the OP. You are still being irrelevant.
Madison says so.

 

[Peephole]

In the 21st century, Madison would hav-

BRAAAAAAAAINZ BRAAAAAAAAINZzzzzzzz

 

[drkitten]

Madison said [something utterly irrelevant, by his own admission].

But Madison also said [something else irrelevant, by his own admission].

You must remember that we do not live in Madison's time, so what Madison said must be [ignored entirely as irrelevant, by his own admission].


In the 21st century, Madison would have [been completely irrelevant, by his own admission].

Also, now that Madison has been annointed the Fatehr of the Constitution, what he says should be [ignored, by his own admission].

I'm sorry. Why are you quoting someone who by his own statement isn't worth quoting?

 

[Galileo]

Recently, one of our resident trolls has been starting a lot of threads on the subject of what James Madison would have said about various modern political issues.

So I thought I would post the following, from Wikipedia:



In other words, Madison himself believed that his personal opinions were irrelevant to issues of national policy, and that the source of all political authority was with the people, as expressed through their collective judgments.

Or in other, other, words, Madison himself would have considered these threads to be puerile, ill-advised, ill-thought-out, and ill-informed.

"Do not separate text from historical background. If you do, you will have perverted and subverted the Constitution, which can only end in a distorted, bastardized form of illegitimate government."

James Madison

Architect of the American Republic

Father of the U.S. Constitution

Author of the Virginia Plan

Author of the Bill-of-Rights

Auther of Federalist #10 and # 51

Defender of Liberty

 

[drkitten]

Something entirely irrelevant, by the author's own admission.

What's the laughing dog icon, again?

 

[Galileo]

What's the laughing dog icon, again?

Can you shout any louder?

Shouting does not make what you say to be true.

 

[drkitten]

Can you shout any louder?

Shouting does not make what you say to be true.

Physician, heal thyself.

While it doesn't make what I say to be true, it does make what I parody to be even more ridiculous.

 

[headscratcher4]

[BJames Madison

Architect of the American Republic

Father of the U.S. Constitution

Author of the Virginia Plan

Author of the Bill-of-Rights

Auther of Federalist #10 and # 51

Defender of Liberty

You forgot slaveowner....should have been right up there next to defender of liberty.

 

[J. Wellington Wimpy]

"James Madison on Dolly Madison... tonight, on VIRGINIA AFTER DARK!"

 

[Galileo]

Recently, one of our resident trolls has been starting a lot of threads on the subject of what James Madison would have said about various modern political issues.

So I thought I would post the following, from Wikipedia:



In other words, Madison himself believed that his personal opinions were irrelevant to issues of national policy, and that the source of all political authority was with the people, as expressed through their collective judgments.

Or in other, other, words, Madison himself would have considered these threads to be puerile, ill-advised, ill-thought-out, and ill-informed.

Madison did not believe in using secret information regarding the Constitution, so he virtually never referred to his Notes during his lifetime.

That is why he made this comment. It was not intended to apply to the time after 1840, when the Notes were published and made public.

You again show your ignorance of the Founding Fathers by quoting them out of context.

 

[drkitten]

You again show your ignorance of the Founding Fathers by quoting them out of context.

Physician, heal thyself.