Continuation - The PG Film - Bob Heironimus and Patty

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William Parcher said:
Read my posts on this page and nearby.

Bob Heironimus says he was filmed at Bluff Creek on either October 5 or October 12. He can't remember which one. He says it was a Thursday. As I said, he claims to have been there for around 24 hours (arrives Weds, leaves Thurs). He slept there for one night.
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Thanks for the info/link. I think it would be interesting to interview Gimlin and Heironimus together. I wonder how much it would cost to make that happen? ;)
 
lucaschorak said:
William Parcher I got his phone number from a guy on youtube.Some things Bob H told me is that he is still friends with Gimlin.And his mother is ill.I am not allowed to give his phone number out because I promised to keep it private.What is a continuation thread?
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Hi, Lucas, and welcome to the JREF forums.

I am interested in your claim of speaking with Bob Heironimus. I've been pursuing conducting an interview with Bob since earlier last year. There are some questions I would like to ask you regarding your contact with him...

1) When was the first time you spoke with Bob and how did you introduce yourself?

2) How many times have you spoken with Bob? Just once?

3) Are you still in contact with Bob?

4) I have contact information for Bob and would like to confirm you have in fact been speaking with him. Can you verify this by PM (private message)?
 
SweatyYeti said:
lucas, I've shown earlier in this thread....with 100% numerical certainty.....that Bob Heironimus could not possibly have been Patty....due to a difference in the reach of their elbows.
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Sweaty, you are stating that you have established as verified fact that neither Bob Heironimus nor any average human could have been Patty. You have not provided any such verification in this thread. Could you please either link to where that verification is or present here in this thread?
 
KitaKaze The first time I called Bob H he answered the phone.He was very nice to me.I have spoken to Bob H four to five times.His mother is starting to get sick to due to being old.I am still in contact with him.
 
I was thinking the same thing Devnull. I have the Heironimus' contact info and have recently acquired their phone and fax number. Lucas, please send me the last three digits of Bob's number by PM. If you have in fact talked with Bob four or five times and are friendly with him, I would like to talk with you further by PM.
 
kitakaze said:
Sweaty, you are stating that you have established as verified fact that neither Bob Heironimus nor any average human could have been Patty. You have not provided any such verification in this thread. Could you please either link to where that verification is or present here in this thread?
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What I've stated is very simple....and irrefutable....



....Bob's elbow cannot possibly reach as far away from his backbone, as Patty's does.
It is a physical impossibility. :)


Here are the numbers, in more detail...


PattyBobElbowRangeMeasured5.jpg




The measurements for Bob are very accurate....since, in addition to being taken on a clear image of Bob, they also happen to match my own measurements. I'm also 6'0" tall....of 'average build'...and fairly broad-shouldered.

Like Bob, my shoulder-joint is located 9" from my backbone, and my upper-arm measures the same length as Bob's.

One key measurement, which agrees with Bob's figure....is that, with my arm held straight out at my side.....fully horizontal....my elbow measures a length of 20" from my backbone.


Patty's elbow measures about 21-22" away from her backbone, with her arm swung-out at only a 40-45-degree angle, approximately.

It's not even "maxed-out", horizontally....and it's beeee:)eeeee-yond the length that Bob's elbow can reach with his arm fully raised up, and fully horizontal.


CONCLUSION: Bob COULD NOT POSSIBLY have been Patty....beyond a shadow of a doubt.
The measurements are unaffected by any potential padding....and the difference in 'elbow reach' is beyond any potential error caused by a "Blur factor".



I'll be doing more work towards confirming these numbers....and posting additional graphics which will show another aspect of the arm/elbows, which further supports my claim...

....That Patty's 'extraordinary upper-torso width' is the result of a skeletal frame which is exceptionally wide, for a 6' tall "human"...rather than the result of an 'average human body', padded-out.


BobPattyWidthRearViewAG2.gif
 
SweatyYeti if you do think you have undeniable proof that Bob H could have not possibly have been Patty.Are you going to make a world wide conference about it?I'm sure some people want to prove you wrong.
 
lucaschorak said:
SweatyYeti if you do think you have undeniable proof that Bob H could have not possibly have been Patty.Are you going to make a world wide conference about it?I'm sure some people want to prove you wrong.
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I expect this 'elbow reach' analysis to go far beyond the walls of Jref.


I'm sure that some folks would enjoy showing these numbers to be wrong, also.....but nobody ever will...:)
 
Does Patty's upper torso being bigger and wider then Bob H's make it impossible for Bob H to have been Patty SweatyYeti?
 
SweatyYeti said:
What I've stated is very simple....and irrefutable.... Bob's elbow cannot possibly reach as far away from his backbone, as Patty's does. It is a physical impossibility.
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No, it isn't a physical impossibility. You're simply mistaken. Patty has perfectly human proportions, as has been demonstrated numerous times by numerous people in numerous ways. The figure's "elbow reach" is well within the range of human physiology, as shown by the Poser7 animation posted in the other Bob H thread -- and so is Bob's.

SweatyYeti said:
Here are the numbers, in more detail...

PattyBobElbowRangeMeasured5.jpg



The measurements for Bob are very accurate... since, in addition to being taken on a clear image of Bob, they also happen to match my own measurements. I'm also 6'0" tall....of 'average build'...and fairly broad-shouldered.

Like Bob, my shoulder-joint is located 9" from my backbone, and my upper-arm measures the same length as Bob's.

One key measurement, which agrees with Bob's figure... is that, with my arm held straight out at my side... fully horizontal... my elbow measures a length of 20" from my backbone.
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Okay, but that doesn't mean your body proportions are exactly the same as Bob's. Sharing the same height and, in your personal subjective opinion, "build" as Bob, does not lead to an irrefutable conclusion that your limb lengths are precisely the same.

See here: http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.1000445

Height is a result of torso length, hip length, spinal column length and femur length, all of which vary among individuals, even those who share the same height. IOW, even if you and Bob are both 6'0", your limbs, including your arms, are predictably different lengths.

So using your own measurements as an ironclad, "irrefutable" guide to Bob's measurements is your first mistake.

SweatyYeti said:
Patty's elbow measures about 21-22" away from her backbone, with her arm swung-out at only a 40-45-degree angle, approximately.

It's not even "maxed-out", horizontally... and it's beyond the length that Bob's elbo w can reach with his arm fully raised up, and fully horizontal.

CONCLUSION: Bob COULD NOT POSSIBLY have been Patty....beyond a shadow of a doubt.

The measurements are unaffected by any potential padding....and the difference in 'elbow reach' is beyond any potential error caused by a "Blur factor".
Click to expand...

Please provide the work you did to arrive at a measurement of 21-22 inches between Patty's spinal column and elbow joint. Since there is no agreement among anyone investigating the PG film, even among proponents of the film, as to the height of the figure, there can be no agreement as to what constitutes an inch at any point on the picture plane.

Also, please explain how you determined the location of the spinal column underneath layers of either costume padding, skin, fat and muscle; or fur, skin, fat and muscle. Are you measuring from a central line precisely bisecting the vertebrae? On a film with low resolution of a distantly photographed figure? Even on the large, blown up still frame you're using, to my eye it looks like your line is off from center. How can you be certain that you're not measuring from the attachment point of the trapezius muscle, one to two inches laterally from the center line of the vertebrae?

See pics of the back here, keeping in mind that the trapezius runs parallel with the line of the spinal column and could be distorting your measurements: http://pubpages.unh.edu/~kst4/a4b.html

The same questions can be asked of your placement of the elbow joint, especially if the figure is wearing a suit that distorts the apparent joints of the arm. Suits of this kind have been described, and pictures presented of them, by AtomicMysteryMonster in numerous PG film-related threads. Your placement of the elbow joint is purely subjective, prone to error and in no way "irrefutable" as you claim.

SweatyYeti said:
I'll be doing more work towards confirming these numbers... and posting additional graphics which will show another aspect of the arm/elbows, which further supports my claim...

...That Patty's 'extraordinary upper-torso width' is the result of a skeletal frame which is exceptionally wide, for a 6' tall "human"... rather than the result of an 'average human body', padded-out.

BobPattyWidthRearViewAG2.gif
Click to expand...

Before moving on to the figure's supposedly inhuman width, you'll need do more work in the area of "elbow reach", because what you've done so far doesn't show a thing beyond that you have an overactive imagination that has so far proven to be immune to logic and rationality.
 
Ok I am back.KitaKaze I will give you the last three digits of Bob H's phone number if I'm allowed to tonight or tomorrow.
 
Why "tonight or tomorrow"? Why not right now? Why not several days ago, when Kit first requested the number, and when you were here posting? Your evasiveness and putting off responses until later continue to demolish your credibility.
 
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