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POTUS Obama Reneges On Promise To Allow C-SPAN Access To Congress HC Negotiations?

A friendly reminder...everyone remember to "play nice". That is to say keep it civil, polite, on topic and attack the argument vs the arguer.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Locknar
 
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Brian Lamb is a political hack.

/yes, I used to watch CSpan
//the callers are ALL morans
//I wish Obama would do what he campaigned on


How many times a day were you on the phone to C-SPAN? That may explain your perception about the intellectual capacity of the callers when you were a viewer.
 
JoeTheJuggler,

INRM, this stuff is off topic, and it's been pointed out to you that you misread the meaning of "National Medical Device Registry". It is about the registration of medical devices, not about medical devices to track people.

Since you don't seem to get that point (or simply refuse to accept it), I suggested a tinfoil hat to prevent you from being tracked by the government.

Now, if I was making the argument that you were making, I would have said "That's not what 'National Medical Device Registry' pertains to, posted a link to the actual bill, and quoted the key sections and explained why that wasn't the case.


INRM
 
JoeTheJuggler,



Now, if I was making the argument that you were making, I would have said "That's not what 'National Medical Device Registry' pertains to, posted a link to the actual bill, and quoted the key sections and explained why that wasn't the case.


INRM
Actually no you wouldn't. In fact I rarely see you quote or provide any sources for your tinfoil paranoid nonsense. We can see your ways in this very thread, for an example, here are your first two posts:
Is it true that some wording in the Health-Care bill might entail using microchips implanted in people to store medical information on them?
Parky76,

Seriously, I remember hearing something about Subtitle C-11, Section 2521- "The National Medical Device Registry"...
Seek help.
 
Now, if I was making the argument that you were making, I would have said "That's not what 'National Medical Device Registry' pertains to, posted a link to the actual bill, and quoted the key sections and explained why that wasn't the case.
Actually, what you would do (and did) is make an unsupported claim that the 'National Medical Device Registry' with no links the actual bill and no quotes to the key sections and explained why that was the case. You would then ignore links pointing out this wasn't true and repeat the claim. Finally, you would chastise Joe for not doing what you didn't do in the first place.


eta: and I was beaten to the punch.
 
"Obama earlier said these talks could take place among "a whole bunch of folks over here in the West Wing" at the White House. And his spokesman has strongly suggested such negotiations would occur behind closed doors. Then they would present the bill to the House and Senate for final passage.

That would be the wrong way to conclude such an important piece of legislation. C-SPAN CEO Brian Lamb has asked congressional leaders to open the talks to his network's cameras. He's right. These negotiations should be open to the public, as Obama promised before he was elected."


http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/20100107_Editorial__Open_the_debate.html

If the talks take place in the West Wing, POTUS Obama would not have to defer to Pelosi on freezing out C-SPAN from covering the reconciliation. Considering the numerous occasions during the campaign where he promised C-SPAN to the entire health care legislation and debate, what excuse would he have for not allowing C-SPAN access during this process should it happen in The West Wing?
 
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Now, if I was making the argument that you were making, I would have said "That's not what 'National Medical Device Registry' pertains to, posted a link to the actual bill, and quoted the key sections and explained why that wasn't the case.

See Upchurch's post number #49. Yes, I admit I went to ridicule after it was obvious you weren't going to listen to reason.

At any rate, you're the one with the claim that the government wants to track people with chips. That's an extraordinary claim. It's not up to me to prove that this claim is wrong; it's up to you to provide support for this outlandish idea.
 
If the talks take place in the West Wing, POTUS Obama would not have to defer to Pelosi on freezing out C-SPAN from covering the reconciliation. Considering the numerous occasions during the campaign where he promised C-SPAN to the entire health care legislation and debate, what excuse would he have for not allowing C-SPAN access during this process should it happen in The West Wing?
Keep digging, Cicero. If you work hard enough, you will construct some potential scenario that justifies your OP. Until it actually comes to pass, all you have is a load of dren.
 
Keep digging, Cicero. If you work hard enough, you will construct some potential scenario that justifies your OP. Until it actually comes to pass, all you have is a load of dren.

Justified? Pelosi won't let C-SPAN cover reconciliation. POTUS Obama hasn't made any public attempt to suggest Pelosi should change her mind. Now if the talks happen in The West Wing, the ball is totally in his court. If C-SPAN is locked out, it will signal another Obama campaign pledge has bit the dust.
 
In the many years I worked in Congress, I don't remember the POTUS having the power to "promise" that Congress and reconciliations meetings would be open to the press. I'm not saying that they should or shouldn't be (though the sausage making rule applies to public interest in the actual functioning of a reconciliation meeting). However, while Obama may have said that the process should be open, he certainly has NO power -- NO PRESIDENT HAS EVER HAD THAT POWER -- over Congress to force that or make that...his opinion, in other words, is meaningless. He knew it. The reporters who heard it knew it. The commentators commenting on it knew it. What every you are mad about here, it is a nonsense point.

My recollection is that Conference Committee activities are completely under the control of the House and Senate, operate by House and Senate rules and the rule for the bill voted on the floor of each body. While the WH is involved from the stand point of trying to shape a final version of a bill that the President wants, or to try and avoid "veto bait" (not an issue here), the WH doesn't "control" the process or its atmospherics.

In short, complaining that Obama "renigged" on something he as president would never have any control over -- other by the moral power of saying government and congressional functions should be more transparent -- is really silly. If you want to compalin about lack of transparance, point to Pelosi and Reid...oh, and than go back and look at how the GOP managed conference committee meetings back when they controlled Congress...often not telling Democrat members of those committees where they were meeting. Again, not defending obvious hypocracy...but hypocracy is well distributed among all the parties to American politics -- in fact, they're addicted to it.

I agree that Obama does not have the power to make Congress allow cameras in the reconiliation meetings.

So shouldn't someone (Reid, Pelosi, the media) at the 8 different campaign stops, debates, press conferences when Obama made that pledge and promise, have pointed out his obvious ingorance of high school level civics?

Those who are defending Obama by saying his critics are ignoring the inherent powers of the different branches are ignoring the biggest problem.

Whether or not Obama can or should allow CSPAN into Congressional meetings isn't the point. The point that he blatantly lied (he knew he didn't have that power but promised it multiple times anyway in order to gain votes) OR that he was woefully ignorant of the powers of the different branches, is to me the main point.

I personally don't care if reconciliation is on tv or not. I do care whether a politician doesn't know the limits of his power or if a politician is cynically dishonest.

Perhaps I'm giving a false dichotomy and there is another explanation that I'm missing, and I (and I am saying this with no sarcasm or snarkiness) welcome anyone who would like to point out another option besides lying/ignorance.
 
Justified? Pelosi won't let C-SPAN cover reconciliation.
That isn't Obama's fault.


POTUS Obama hasn't made any public attempt to suggest Pelosi should change her mind.
A "public attempt"? Move the goal posts much?

If he had done that, would it have been that he didn't do it more than once or that he didn't do it in writing? :rolleyes:


Now if the talks happen in The West Wing, the ball is totally in his court. If C-SPAN is locked out, it will signal another Obama campaign pledge has bit the dust.
If, if, if...

Let me know when you actually have something, because now you only have dren.
 
That isn't Obama's fault.

It is his fault that he made a public declaration during the campaign that health care legislation would be covered by C-SPAN from start to finish. If he had no way of enforcing the promise why in Hell did he make it?


A "public attempt"? Move the goal posts much?

His promise was public. Why wouldn't, or shouldn't, his request to Pelosi also be public?

If he had done that, would it have been that he didn't do it more than once or that he didn't do it in writing? :rolleyes:

Don't you get a little weary of the stretch marks you get bending over backwards in a desperate attempt to excuse Obama from even the mildest reproach?

If, if, if...

Let me know when you actually have something, because now you only have dren.

Since when have you had the ability to recognize anything that tarnishes your super hereo?
 
OK, Obama said that Health Care coverage would be covered start to finish. It looks like 90% of it has. If 10% is not and it is under the auspices of Congress I don't fault him much for that. It is too bad but not something to excoriate Obama over. I guess I can tsk, tsk him but that is about it.
 
OK, Obama said that Health Care coverage would be covered start to finish. It looks like 90% of it has. If 10% is not and it is under the auspices of Congress I don't fault him much for that. It is too bad but not something to excoriate Obama over. I guess I can tsk, tsk him but that is about it.

And more importantly, we're all fully aware of the ugly compromises that have been made. There's no big secret.

So Cicero, if you don't like the health insurance reform bill, why not just talk about what you don't like about it rather than this silly CT stuff?

ETA: And again, this has surely been at least as transparent a process as that for any other large piece of legislation in modern history.
 
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So Cicero, if you don't like the health insurance reform bill, why not just talk about what you don't like about it rather than this silly CT stuff?

See, for Cicero, it is of far more import that Obama failed to keep a campaign promise about transparency in government than whether there actually IS transparency. I doubt he had any problem at all with Bush having 0% transparency regarding his energy meetings.

So, to summarize Cicero's logic:

Obama trying for transparency but not quite achieving total transparency -> Incredibly bad

Bush refusing any inquiry into his closed door energy meetings -> Good
 
And more importantly, we're all fully aware of the ugly compromises that have been made. There's no big secret.

So Cicero, if you don't like the health insurance reform bill, why not just talk about what you don't like about it rather than this silly CT stuff?

ETA: And again, this has surely been at least as transparent a process as that for any other large piece of legislation in modern history.

How is POTUS Obama not lving up to his campaign pledge(s) a conspiracy theory? What does Nacy Pelosi's dopey comments about candidate Obama's pleges have to do with conspiracy theories?

Have you read the House health reform bill's 1,990 pages? How about the Senate bill's 2,074 pages? How many people in Congress have read every single page? How is it possible that the much revered Canadian health care bill is only 8 pages long?
 
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See, for Cicero, it is of far more import that Obama failed to keep a campaign promise about transparency in government than whether there actually IS transparency. I doubt he had any problem at all with Bush having 0% transparency regarding his energy meetings.

So, to summarize Cicero's logic:

Obama trying for transparency but not quite achieving total transparency -> Incredibly bad

Bush refusing any inquiry into his closed door energy meetings -> Good

You should stick to pilates instead of relying on leaping to conclusions for exercise. Where have I ever held up Bush 43's administration as a paradigm of transparency? But more to the point, what does Bush 43 have to do with candidate Obama's campaign promises?
 
You should stick to pilates instead of relying on leaping to conclusions for exercise. Where have I ever held up Bush 43's administration as a paradigm of transparency? But more to the point, what does Bush 43 have to do with candidate Obama's campaign promises?

The point is campaign promises are just ephemera. I am more concerned about actions. In this case, the health care debate was, for the most part, transparent. Especially compared to Bush's energy meetings where we can't even find out who was in the room.

Are you more concerned about trasnparency or tabulating campaign promises, Cicero? It appears the latter.
 

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