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A question about the age of "toddler" universe

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My question is, how did they calculate that the "snapshot" is of a 600 million year old universe?

probably several ways.

1) redshift. This gives distance, and the speed of light therefore gives time.

2) they know the spectrum of the light in order to claim the stars don't have metals in them. This means they must be first generation stars.

3) other methods I've not thought of yet.
 
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probably several ways.

1) redshift. This gives distance, and the speed of light therefore gives time.

2) they know the spectrum of the light in order to claim the stars don't have metals in them. This means they must be first generation stars.

3) other methods I've not thought of yet.

The main idea is indeed "redshift", but at these extreme distances it's not quite the same thing as measuring where the spectral lines have moved to.

These galaxies are far, far too faint to register on a high-resolution spectrometer---a spectrometer has to spread light out, which means you're taking the (few thousand!) photons you collect from the galaxy and schmearing them across 1000 pixels of your CCD. You simply don't see anything in a spectrometer.

What you can do is collect all of your photons on a *few* CCD pixels (which does give a reasonable image, visible above the noise) and then swap a few filters in front of the CCD in order to get some very rough spectral information. It's a spectrum, but too coarse to see spectral lines.

There is one feature that all star-forming galaxies have, though, which is not a line but an "edge". These galaxies emit scads of hard-UV light from young stars, then reabsorb anything that happens to be below the Hydrogen lyman-alpha wavelength of 121.6 nm. So you expect all young galaxies to have this "step" function in their rest frame spectrum, with not much emission below 121.6nm then suddenly lots above. When you're looking at a high-redshift galaxy, say at z=6 or z=7, then this "Lyman break" happens not in the UV but in the IR. Where does it happen? That depends on the redshift.

So: most identification of ultra-high-redshift galaxies is done by looking for galaxies with a "lyman dropout" somewhere in the IR. You look for something that is visible through several longer-IR-wavelength-passing filters, but "suddenly" invisible through a short-wavelength-passing filter.

Now you know at what wavelength the "dropout" appears, and that tells you how far the 121.6nm cutoff has been redshifted, and that tells you the redshift. Technically it's the redshift of the Ly-Alpha absorber, not the UV emitter behind it, but it's fair to assume that they're right next to one another.

You have to be careful---it's possible for a nearby object to happen to have a spectral "step" (having nothing to do with Ly-Alpha) at 1500nm---so there are various followup checks, but that's not my field so I don't claim to know how they all work.
 
4) The size of the galaxies. In the young universe they would all be small. As the universe gets older they combine and so get bigger.

Not sure if they actually do use that method but see no reason for them to do so. However they would need to calibrate the measurements.
 
If you're interested in how people know how far away things are (and therefore how old they are), then I recommend Measuring the Universe: The Historical Quest to Quantify Space by Kitty Ferguson.

It outlines the many methods that are used to determine astronomical distances - redshift, Type Ia supernovas, cepheid variables...

Of course, the best way to know how far away something is is to use as many of these tools as possible, and see whether they all agree.

Once you know how far away something is, you can also determine how old it is, because of the finite speed of light. If something is 100 light-years away, that means that the light we are seeing was emitted by that object 100 years ago, and has taken that long to get to us. Hubble is seeing things that are very far away - measurably so, by a number of methods. The things its seeing are so far away that the light we are seeing was emitted by those objects 600 million years after the big bang.
 
You can tell by the styles of the Klingon beards.

So- how far back is the theoretical limit (presumably set by inflation)?
 
Once you know how far away something is, you can also determine how old it is, because of the finite speed of light. If something is 100 light-years away, that means that the light we are seeing was emitted by that object 100 years ago, and has taken that long to get to us.
Except of course for universal expansion and normal movement in space, which might make the object much further away.
 
Except of course for universal expansion and normal movement in space, which might make the object much further away.

Further away now. Back when the light was emitted, it was closer. Time and space are mixed up.
 
But you can't see that far back (oh, and I think a 4 digit number is ridiculously precise). Until the universe was about 300K years old, it was opaque. Before that time, it was too hot for hydrogen atoms to form.

see the last paragraph at
http://www.astro.virginia.edu/~jh8h/Foundations/chapter12/chapter12.html

[that says a million years, the above 300K is from my fallable memory]
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The WMAP project estimated the age of the universe to be 13.72 billion years (if I remember correctly), and that's what I mentioned earlier.
 
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Further away now. Back when the light was emitted, it was closer. Time and space are mixed up.

Well, yes. There are several conflicting ways of thinking about distance/time when very long distances are involved.

In the example about "100 light years", you can think of the distance as:

- the source was 100 light years away from us when the light was emitted, which doesn't tell us anything about the current distance or about when was it that the light was emitted; or
- the light travelled for 100 years to arrive here, which doesn't directly say anything about the actual distance, either now or when the light was emitted; or
- the source is 100 light years away now, which doesn't tell us anything about the distance at the time when the light was emitted

For this relatively small distance, the most significant effect in varying the distance will be the relative movement of the objects (and the three meanings above are then pretty much identical); for more distant objects, I believe what is actually meant is usually the middle option.

If you add a few more zeroes to the number of light years, then the dilation of the universe (and the possibility that the light path was not a straight line due to gravitational lensing) will start to play havoc with the numbers in a much more severe way.
 
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Question

If we see a galaxy 13 billion light years away, I understand that to mean that galaxy's location 13 billion years ago is 13 billion LY away from earth's current location. Is there any way to calculate (roughly) how far that galaxy's current location is from earth's current location? Is it possible (due to inflation) that the distance could be greater than 13.7 billion LY?
 
If we see a galaxy 13 billion light years away, I understand that to mean that galaxy's location 13 billion years ago is 13 billion LY away from earth's current location. Is there any way to calculate (roughly) how far that galaxy's current location is from earth's current location? Is it possible (due to inflation) that the distance could be greater than 13.7 billion LY?

The distance now will be greater than 13.7GLY, but not because of inflation. Inflation is a specific phase of the BB and it occurred very early on (in the first second, IIRC). It also increased the size of the universe by many orders of magnitude (28?, 34?).

The distance will have increased due to the expansion of space. the space between Earth and the remote galaxy has got bigger -- neither Earth nor the galaxy has moved through space to get farther apart. By 'Earth' I mean the stuff that ended up being the Milky Way, as it was somewhat different 13.7GYA.
 
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Does that mean that we can say that the age of the universe is 13.7 billion years? I mean is it correct up to the 3rd digit?

yes +/- 130 million years -- so that 7 could go up or down by 1.
 

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