Could Rudy Guede alone have killed Meredith Kercher?

[Dan O.]

I'm starting this thread to explore the possibility of Rudy Hermann Guede being the sole perpetrator in the murder of Meredith Kercher.

For this thread, any discussion of Amanda Knox or Raffaele Sollecito being at the scene when the murder occurred is strictly off topic.
The scene of the crime:

Excerpts from Judges report

On 2 November 2007 at 12.35pm persons from the Postal Police of Perugia went to Via della Pergola 7 in order to track down Romanelli Filomena, since in the same morning Mrs Lana Elisabetta had found on the lawn of the garden attached to her house, in Perugia, Via Sperandio 5b, two mobile phones of which one had the sim card of Vodafone 348 467 3711, belonging to the same Romanelli.
Upon reaching the destination the agents found outside the building on Via Della Pergola 7 two youths, identified as KNOX Amanda Marie, who lived at that address, and SOLLECITO Raffaele, who said they were waiting for the Carabinieri military police, called because on that morning they became aware of a window with the glass broken and had suspected a theft.

In the course of the search it was ascertained that the door of the room which was used by Meredith Kercher, the other girl living in the apartment, was closed and locked and it was decided therefore to break down the door because Romanelli said it was strange that her friend Kercher could have both her telephones switched off, having lately used also the phone with the sim card stated [of Romanelli], and that the door should be closed.
With the door opened there was a chilling scene in so far as the room was found in disorder with blood stains everywhere, on the ground and on the walls, and also under the duvet of the bed a foot could be seen.

The girl, found dead with a blow to her neck with a sharp weapon, was identified as Meredith Kercher, an English student in Italy from September and enrolled on the Erasmus scheme and at the University of Perugia.
From the first medical examination of the corpse by the pathologist, Dr Luca Lalli, it has been established that the death occurred at 11pm at the earliest and at the latest one hour after with the scope of a time frame between 10pm and midnight on the day 1 November 2007.

Rudy Guédé admitted to being at the scene and left copious evidence including finger prints, footprints and DNA but claimed that a stranger had followed him in and killed Meredith while he was on the toilet. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2946813.ece

 

[quadraginta]

I'm starting this thread to explore the possibility of Rudy Hermann Guede being the sole perpetrator in the murder of Meredith Kercher.

For this thread, any discussion of Amanda Knox or Raffaele Sollecito being at the scene when the murder occurred is strictly off topic.
The scene of the crime:

Excerpts from Judges report







Rudy Guédé admitted to being at the scene and left copious evidence including finger prints, footprints and DNA but claimed that a stranger had followed him in and killed Meredith while he was on the toilet. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2946813.ece

Your OP might need some clarification.

Are you saying that you want to discuss the likelihood that Guede acted alone, but you want to do so without any consideration of any evidence which may also implicate Sollecito or Knox?

That doesn't seem like a very useful endeavor.

Or are you saying that you want to see if it is possible to construct a hypothetical scenario which involves only Guede when enough of the known evidence is disregarded?

That's been done. The answer is yes. Still not very useful.

 

[Dan O.]

That's been done.

Your links to previous discussions would be helpful.


You may show the evidence that is incompatible with a lone Rudy Guede theory and we can discuss the strength of that evidence in dismissing the theory without the preconception that certain other parties were present.

 

[quadraginta]

Your links to previous discussions would be helpful.


You may show the evidence that is incompatible with a lone Rudy Guede theory and we can discuss the strength of that evidence in dismissing the theory without the preconception that certain other parties were present.

That's what I thought. A troll.

Why do you want to reinvent the wheel in this one thread when the phonebook is full of tire stores.

Your new wheel will still be flat on the bottom.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

1) We know there were two different knives used. A single person could do this, sure. But it's more likely there was at least 2 assailants.

2) Meredith's body was moved quite some time after the murder. Guede ran shortly after Meredith was killed (Time of Death vs witnesses placing Guede at a club shortly after). We know it was a long enough time after the death for the blood to pool and dry.

3) Meredith's body showed little signs of struggle - no DNA/skin under the nails, etc. This more easily fits a theory involving multiple assailants - 1-2 people to hold her while another person was stabbing/cutting.

4) The cleanup of the bloody footprints in the hallway/bathroom, plus the bloody footprint (about the size of AK's shoes) in Filomena's room indicate someone cleaned up part of the scene after Guede would already have fled. Besides the cleanup, the fact that the bloody footprint was too small to have been Guede's indicates someone else was more than likely involved.

ETA: 5) The key to Meredith's locked room was found in AK's room (not 100%, but I do recall reading this somewhere in the original thread on this subject).

This is just a small sample of the evidence as I've seen presented. The Italian court system saw even more evidence of multiple assailants.

Quit trolling in a (pitiful) attempt to ignore the evidence to prove your "angel" was railroaded by an Italian court looking for revenge (or whatever it may be).

ETA: It would be nearly impossible to discuss the possibility of Guede acting alone without ignoring a large body of evidence pointing directly towards Knox and Sollecito. I mean, sure, we could ignore that evidence and present a theory involving only Guede...but this is a skeptic website, here we tend to include all pieces of evidence before drawing a conclusion - not merely draw a conclusion and then exclude any evidence that would render our position untenable.

 

[lector]

ETA: 5) The key to Meredith's locked room was found in AK's room (not 100%, but I do recall reading this somewhere in the original thread on this subject).

According to numerous statements on the PMF site, which apparently haven't been challenged, the key was never found.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

According to numerous statements on the PMF site, which apparently haven't been challenged, the key was never found.

Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't sure about that...

 

[Alt+F4]

We know there were two different knives used. A single person could do this, sure. But it's more likely there was at least 2 assailants.

And you have to take into consideration that one of knives was from RS's apartment and had the victim's DNA on it although there was no evidence that Meredith had ever been in the apartment.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

And you have to take into consideration that one of knives was from RS's apartment and had the victim's DNA on it although there was no evidence that Meredith had ever been in the apartment.

Maybe Guede ran to Sollecito's apt with the knife before hitting the club? I'm sure he needed a shower and to change clothes, what with Meredith's blood all over him and all. And AK's DNA on the handle must have come from...um...being in the cottage with all of AK's dead skin cells floating around and all that...

[/sarcasm directed toward OP]

 

[Dan O.]

1) We know there were two different knives used. A single person could do this, sure. But it's more likely there was at least 2 assailants.

I believe the defense made the argument that the one knife could have made all of the knife wounds. Was there a wound too deep for the blade that left an imprint on the bed sheet?

2) Meredith's body was moved quite some time after the murder. Guede ran shortly after Meredith was killed (Time of Death vs witnesses placing Guede at a club shortly after). We know it was a long enough time after the death for the blood to pool and dry.

For this, we will have to review how the time of death was established. Early reports said 11 to midnight but this seemed to change with every change in the prosecution's theory. Also, the time of death and the time when blood was first drawn are not necessarily the same.

3) Meredith's body showed little signs of struggle - no DNA/skin under the nails, etc. This more easily fits a theory involving multiple assailants - 1-2 people to hold her while another person was stabbing/cutting.

Wasn't there hair found in her hand? The police were already looking for a black man before they picked up Patrick Lumumba.

4) The cleanup of the bloody footprints in the hallway/bathroom, plus the bloody footprint (about the size of AK's shoes) in Filomena's room indicate someone cleaned up part of the scene after Guede would already have fled. Besides the cleanup, the fact that the bloody footprint was too small to have been Guede's indicates someone else was more than likely involved.

Despite the rumors, men are quite capable of cleaning up after themselves. However, the existence of a bloody shoe print at the scene that does not match Rudy would indicate a possible accomplice and this will need to be verified.

ETA: 5) The key to Meredith's locked room was found in AK's room (not 100%, but I do recall reading this somewhere in the original thread on this subject).

I haven't heard this but imagine it would have been big news if true.

Quit trolling

I'm reporting your post. If you don't want to participate in the discussion you don't have to.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

I'm reporting your post. If you don't want to participate in the discussion you don't have to.

So, because you're trolling by asking a skeptic website to ignore any facet of evidence that doesn't support your theory...and I call you out on it...you're reporting me? Gotcha

Since you insist on being disingenuous with your approach to the matter, I'm pretty tempted to just exit this thread post-haste.

 

[Dan O.]

And you have to take into consideration that one of knives was from RS's apartment and had the victim's DNA on it although there was no evidence that Meredith had ever been in the apartment.

After testing a large number on knives from RS's apartment they found 1 possible sample so miniscule that it wasn't visible to the naked eye that may have contained Meredith's DNA. Even if it were Meredith's DNA, there is no way to show when it got on the knife. Did Meredith handle a clove of garlic earlier in the week that Amanda subsequently took to Raffaele's apartment and crushed with the knife?

 

[quadraginta]

After testing a large number on knives from RS's apartment they found 1 possible sample so miniscule that it wasn't visible to the naked eye that may have contained Meredith's DNA. Even if it were Meredith's DNA, there is no way to show when it got on the knife. Did Meredith handle a clove of garlic earlier in the week that Amanda subsequently took to Raffaele's apartment and crushed with the knife?

That wasn't Sollecito's explanation. Are you claiming to be unaware of that?

 

[Dan O.]

There are any number of theories that can explain how DNA can get transfered from one place to another and most of them don't invalidate any theory that Rudy acted alone in the murder.

If you want to talk about a knife, why don't we talk about Rudy's knife. Has there been a comparison between Rudy's knife and the wounds in the victim?

 

[truethat]

Even if the other two didn't kill the chick, they certainly know way more than they are letting on. Logic suggests that they both were in on it because neither has sold out the other and nothing new has come forward.

 

[Symbol]

For this thread, any discussion of Amanda Knox or Raffaele Sollecito being at the scene when the murder occurred is strictly off topic.

We're on a sceptics' website and you demand that all participants in this discussion disregard evidence?

I don't think so, Dan O.

Please declare your agenda.

 

[lionking]

We're on a sceptics' website and you demand that all participants in this discussion disregard evidence?

I don't think so, Dan O.

Please declare your agenda.

Clearly he thinks Amanda is innocent. I agree with you that the conditions of the OP make this whole issue impossible to discuss rationally.

 

[Kestrel]

Think of this as an exercise similar to proving that Oswald could have acted alone.

Was it possible that Rudy Guede have entered the apartment without assistance?

Was it possible for Rudy Guede to have made all the wounds found on the victims body without assistance?

Could Rudy Guede be responsible for the missing cell phones?

If the answer to any of these is no, what is the exact reason?

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Think of this as an exercise similar to proving that Oswald could have acted alone.

Was it possible that Rudy Guede have entered the apartment without assistance?

Was it possible for Rudy Guede to have made all the wounds found on the victims body without assistance?

Could Rudy Guede be responsible for the missing cell phones?

If the answer to any of these is no, what is the exact reason?

So, he could have done all those things.

What about all the evidence that points toward multiple assialants? Oh, that's right, that's not allowed in this thread.

The only way to provide a scenario wherein RG acted alone is to ignore the abundance of evidence against AK and RS. But, hey, I'm just trolling now

 

[Symbol]

Was it possible that Rudy Guede have entered the apartment without assistance?

Yes, it's possible indeed.

Was it possible for Rudy Guede to have made all the wounds found on the victims body without assistance?

Yes, it's possible. It didn't take many wounds to kill her. And some of her wounds were inflicted after she died.

Could Rudy Guede be responsible for the missing cell phones?

It's certainly possible that he disposed of them as he left the area, yes.

If the answer to any of these is no, what is the exact reason?

What is the exact reason for what?