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"Back From Dead"

Rodney said:
There are unlimited possibilities, just no convincing explanation.
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What do you mean "no convincing explanation"? The suggestions are all plausible and possible. Although, I have to admit that the story which fits the best is an accidental intravenous injection of a narcotic.

What does any issue discussed in this subforum have to do with the paranormal if, as most here believe, there is no such thing as the paranormal?
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So you are suggesting that because we cannot definitively determine which of the several possible normal causes led to her arrest and recovery, that it cannot be any of them?

Linda
 
Her meds made her heart stop
They continued to give her O2 and chest compressions while prepping her for surgery.
The baby’s heart never really stopped.
The whole “gray” thing is what everyone looks like if your BP is low enough.
Hospital lawyers had daddy sign off on a “miracle” and if he don’t sue he’ll get big discount on the medical bill.
Daddy/Momma/Baby will appear on Fox news channel/ TBN before the end of Jan.
I’d bet if you had a way to search medical records for Christmas day (over the course of several years) all over the world you could find hundreds of these “miracles”.
 
Rodney said:
What does any issue discussed in this subforum have to do with the paranormal if, as most here believe, there is no such thing as the paranormal?
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I'm not convinced that there's no such thing as the paranormal, but I'm at a loss as to what you think this story demostrates. It's a nice heart-warming story for the festive period. I can't see anything deeper. Can you explain what you think it shows?
 
Rodney, I'd like your answer to the question I posed earlier:

Since you seem to think this is some miraculous happening, let me ask you this: Do you think the woman and the baby would have survived if the attending physicians, nurses, whoevers had just left them on a cot and not done a thing to try to resuscitate them?
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Obviously there was a lot of trained attention give to them, they were not clinically dead (at least not declared as such), and yet they were both resuscitated - but did not revive themselves, they had a lot of professional help. I'm interested to know why, to you, this seems to mean something else was at play here.
 
I love it when theists weasel around and avoid actually saying what theyre strongly implying.

I just had a chat with a catholic on IRC, and he did anything he could to avoid saying the words "the fall was caused by adam and eve eating fruit from the tree of knowledge", because, well, its ridiculous :)

Anyway, what Rodney wants to say is "they dont know how it happened, therefore God intervened and this is a verifiable miracle". Also note that doctors are all idiots, and science is evil, until a scientist/doctor confirms their delusion, then theyre AOK.

Laughable.
 
First.

Why is it that anyone trying to promote woo, is absolutley incapable of stating what they mean , or their intentions.

To answer myself, it is because once they say " i think ""a"" " then it can be exhamined , and refuted. If they just stick with implications , then they can keep giving the virtual elbow to the ribs about the subject.

That or they are just being immature and hoping that if they ignore a question or don't respond enough it will annoy someone.

Second

Rare, is rare. But that dosn't mean anything wierd is going on. In my life being a level 25 nerd, i have seen dice do the most insane things. I have seen a legitimate 100 sided dice ( kinda looks like a golf ball) land on 100 3 times in a row, i have seen a 4 sided dice land on its tip, and i have seen a new 6 sided dice simply explode on the impact of its first roll ( obviously a production issue) , the chances of any of these happening are very very high to say the least, but does that mean that god wanted me to have a fictional magic artifact? Does that mean some supernatural force didn't want my damage to be rolled on the d4? Or did zeus maybe zap my six sided dice?

A rare event, within the realm of possibility will happen to someone and as such is no proof of the supernatural or paranormal. Now if the woman had been flattened by a bus and all came out allright, then we could talk. But it seems things like that just don't happen.
 
Rodney, since you posted this in the paranormal forum, I'm guessing you think something paranormal is possible in this case, regardless of what anyone else here believes.

But what about this story is paranormal? Was is the part where a healthy woman suffered cardiac arrest out of nowhere? Or was it the part where she was revived by health professionals? What in this story falls outside the realm of normal activity? People get sick every day, and medical professionals work to heal them every day, with good success. On the flip side, women and their babies are still dying in childbirth every single day. Is there something more they should be doing so that paranormal spirits will intervene and save them?
 
Seeing as this thread seems to have no reason for being here , as per rodney's continued avoidance of why this has been posted. I vote we change the topic to house of pain's " back from the dead" at least that has references to an actual coming back from the dead.
 
fls said:
What do you mean "no convincing explanation"? The suggestions are all plausible and possible. Although, I have to admit that the story which fits the best is an accidental intravenous injection of a narcotic.
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Are you accusing Dr. Martin of either: (a) an alleged accidental injection, or (b) a cover-up of that alleged injection?

fls said:
So you are suggesting that because we cannot definitively determine which of the several possible normal causes led to her arrest and recovery, that it cannot be any of them?
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No, only that Dr. Martin -- who was there, unlike you and the rest of the experts here -- seems much more reticent to assign a normal cause than you and the others.
 
Sun Countess said:
But what about this story is paranormal?
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"Martin said it became clear that Hermanstorfer was not responding to any revival efforts after several minutes, so the team turned its focus to trying to save the baby by performing a Caesarean section without anesthetic. That's when doctors were hit with more bad news.

"When I delivered [the baby], he was limp, completely lifeless," Martin said.

"Then something happened that Martin still has trouble explaining.

"As soon as I delivered the baby, the mother's heartbeat came back," Martin said. "Somewhere between four and five minutes she had been without heart rate and had stopped breathing a minute or two prior to her heart stopping."
 
:confused:
That all sounds normal to me. People are revived every day. Just because the doctor doesn't have a pat explanation for exactly what happened in this particular circumstance doesn't mean that there is no natural explanation. They were doing whatever they could to save the lives of both the baby and the mother, and the efforts seem to have worked.
 
Rodney, is it the fact that the doctor had no explanation, or the fact that it was as long as 4-5 minutes without a heart rate that she was revived that is paranormal? Because it's not unheard of for people to be successfully revived after a handful of minutes, even if one may not know why it occurred. If it's the fact that the doctors don't know why she revived, you're arguing a revival-of-the-gaps argument, or an argument from incredulity.
 
Sigh... another "miraculous" god-of-the-gaps story :rolleyes:

ETA: If someone is going to push a "miracle" story, they need to make it interesting. Something like: "The woman exploded into little tiny bits, pieces of her smeared all over the walls of the delivery room, whereupon all the pieces re-constituted themselves back into her previous form, alive, breathing, and demanding a chocolate milkshake for her troublesome labor." :D
 
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I Ratant said:
I expect the lives of the child and the mother will be forever hence burdened with the "miracle" from all the devout.
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I dunno. Stories like this are so common that their LOCAL fame will burn off in weeks. Nationally, they are already nobodies. Andy Warhol's fifteen minutes was more of a limit and they had a minute and a half.
 
Rodney said:
Are you accusing Dr. Martin of either: (a) an alleged accidental injection,
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It couldn't have been Dr. Martin as she was first called to the scene after the mother went into arrest.

or (b) a cover-up of that alleged injection?
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It is odd that she didn't mention all of the possibilities. I can't tell whether or not it was a deliberate omission, or whether she simply failed to think of other plausible causes.

No, only that Dr. Martin -- who was there, unlike you and the rest of the experts here -- seems much more reticent to assign a normal cause than you and the others.
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Where does she say that she is reticent to assign a normal cause? She mentions a couple of plausible options (and fails to mention some additional plausible options), but doesn't commit to any one of them. Again, how does an inability to choose between normal options become proof that it can't be a normal cause?

Linda
 
fls said:
So you are suggesting that because we cannot definitively determine which of the several possible normal causes led to her arrest and recovery, that it cannot be any of them?
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Or worse yet, that our inability to determine which mundane explanation is true somehow supports a paranormal explanation!
 
Rodney said:
"We did a thorough evaluation and can't find anything that explains why this happened," she said.
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Even if that's true, it doesn't argue in favor of a paranormal explanation.

Don't mistake ignorance for evidence.
 
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