Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[Fulcanelli]

Since there were no witnesses or video cameras in the room, how do we know the attack went on for 15 minutes?

Do Italian prosecutors have psychic powers?

Because of the torture...as revealed by her injuries! That combined with evidence via witness testimony.

 

[Kestrel]

The diagram you show is not the one I have seen and I will have to search for that.

The BBC had a diagram that didn't show any doors going into the flat. But I haven't seen one that had multiple doors.

 

[Kestrel]

Does anyone have any ideas as to why Meredith's cell phones were taken from the cottage and deposited in a neighbor's garden?

I had forgotten about this little nugget regarding Rudy.

The defense has made a major attempt to cast Rudy as a small-time thief with a window-breaking modus operandi. Earlier testimony painted him as the person who broke into a lawyers' office in Perugia in October, just weeks before Meredith's death, through a window (see photo). Guede was later caught in Milan with a computer and cellphone stolen from that same office.

If he had lifted a cell phone before, why wouldn't he lift Meredith's phones?

 

[Fulcanelli]

I had forgotten about this little nugget regarding Rudy.



If he had lifted a cell phone before, why wouldn't he lift Meredith's phones?

Wait...tell me I'm seeing things, but did you just throw Candace Dempsey at us as a 'source'? It may be that I was just seeing things, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and put it down to bad eye sight on my part, or a mistake on yours. But, if you want to be keeping what little credibility you have, which isn't much right now, don't be doing that again...'kay?

 

[Kestrel]

Wait...tell me I'm seeing things, but did you just throw Candace Dempsey at us as a 'source'? It may be that I was just seeing things, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and put it down to bad eye sight on my part, or a mistake on yours. But, if you want to be keeping what little credibility you have, which isn't much right now, don't be doing that again...'kay?

The story is confirmed here:

Guede also carried out another break-in at the offices of a local lawyer in Perugia and at the end of October he was arrested in Milan after breaking into a school.
There he was found in possession of a laptop and mobile stolen in the burglaries as well as a large flick knife, but he was freed and made his way back to Perugia where he met Meredith.

It seems that Candice was right.

ETA: Another report about the same break-in indicates a rock was used to gain entry.

Palazzoli discovered they had been broken into Sunday, Oct. 14, 2007, and police later determined that the thief or thieves had entered by climbing up to the window, which is above a terrace, about 12 feet high. Police determined a rock was used with some strength to break through the double glass, and the alarm system was disabled. A computer and a printer were missing.

Rudy's MO was using a rock to break a second story window. He is known to carry a knife and steal cell phones.

All of which came into play on the night Meredith was murdered.

 

[shuize]

I predict that Amanda Knox will speak excellent Italian by the time she's released.

 

[Fulcanelli]

The story is confirmed here:



It seems that Candice was right.

ETA: Another report about the same break-in indicates a rock was used to gain entry.



Rudy's MO was using a rock to break a second story window. He is known to carry a knife and steal cell phones.

All of which came into play on the night Meredith was murdered.

Kestrel, you are now talking complete rubbish. Rudy was granted mitigating circumstances because he has NO criminal record. Yet here you are, claiming he burgled offices and carried a knife, neither of which are true. They are though, standard FOA talking points.

 

[stilicho]

Here is my theory. There is a ready market for stolen cell phones. Rudy took them to sell. After leaving the flat he figured out that keeping them after murdering the owner was a really bad idea. So he tossed them.

Your theory is ridiculous. Cell phones are possibly the least marketable items contained in the whole cottage. Again you're demonstrating only your complete ignorance of the murder case. Many items in Filomena's room were much more readily pawned or sold.

As Fulcanelli has pointed out, you're retreating from one FOA talking point only to seize another one. Why are you doing this?

Nobody is about to saint RG for his part in Meredith's killing, Kestrel. But we know beyond a reasonable doubt that he did not act alone. All the supporting evidence points to both RS and AK. To ignore this is to ignore reality, science, reason, scepticism, and logic.

@JungleJim: AK and/or RS took the cell phones to prevent Meredith from using them as she struggled to live after the fatal slash to her neck. She was able to scrawl some letters in blood on a surface in her room as she fought for life.

 

[stilicho]

Now you are REALLY reaching. He took them, only to change his mind a couple of minutes later.

And he did all this, leaving bloody fingerprints in the cottage, so his hands were covered in blood, yet there wasn't so much as a micro trace of blood on the phones. Moreover, why didn't he dump the keys and/or knife at the same time with the phones?

Why take the phones in the first place, yet leave Meredith's i-pod (and we know he likes those), leave Filomena's expensive jewelery, designer sunglasses and clothes? Leave Laura's Filomena's, Laura's and Amanda's expensive laptop computers yet took two phones only to throw them away a couple of minutes later? That sounds logical to you?

I hope Kestrel had a chance to absorb that. You are doing what a good lawyer would be doing in trying to construct a coherent and cohesive alternate narrative to the prosecution's scenario as presented in court.

Unfortunately, the FOA people approach legal issues the same way 'truthers' approach 9/11. We will hear endlessly about the "majik DNA" in this case although it makes little sense on its own and adds zero credibility to any alternative narrative that might exonerate AK or RS.

If I had to pick a defense attorney between you or Kestrel, you'd get my call. I wonder if Kestrel has any really awesome explanation about why an innocent murder suspect would let a man languish in prison for two weeks until the police proved that he wasn't there.



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Oh noes!!!1!!1! Not the Rudy Guede "drug-dealing small-time thief" lie again!?!?!? Kestrel: That's a Friends Of Amanda talking point gobbled up by some media who did not fact-check. As they say, if he had a criminal record there must be details of it somewhere. There are abundant details of AK's little "house party" ticket so a burglary conviction ought to be easy to confirm.

 

[Kestrel]

If I had to pick a defense attorney between you or Kestrel, you'd get my call. I wonder if Kestrel has any really awesome explanation about why an innocent murder suspect would let a man languish in prison for two weeks until the police proved that he wasn't there.

The Italian investigators had collected fingerprints in blood that didn't match RS or AK. They knew someone else was in Meredith's room when she was murdered. So they worked on Amanda, manipulating her until she cracked. Under stress she told a nonsensical story. They arrested Lamumba based on nothing but that story.

It should have taken less than a day to verify that the prints found on the scene didn't match Lumumba. His story of where he was the night of the murders could have been checked out that same day. But they kept him for two weeks. As we have seen before, Giuliano Mignini doesn't mind locking up innocent people.

 

[Fulcanelli]

The Italian investigators had collected fingerprints in blood that didn't match RS or AK. They knew someone else was in Meredith's room when she was murdered. So they worked on Amanda, manipulating her until she cracked. Under stress she told a nonsensical story.

Hardly Kestrel, but it's a nice fantasy though. One that makes no sense. Amanda wasn't even a suspect when she was questioned, the police had no idea she was in any way involved in the crime or knew who was. She wasn't even called to the station. They called in Raffaele because they wanted to speak to him alone. She insisted on going with him. While Raffaele was being questioned, since Amanda was there, they thought they may as well ask her some questions, so they questioned her informally in the police station public waiting room. Hardly iron maidens and thumb screws.

They became suspicious of Amanda because during his questioning Raffaele dropped Amanda's alibi and told police she'd left his apartment to go to Le Chic and he'd told them a load of rubbish before because Amanda had told him to. Then, when asking to look at Amanda's phone they saw the text to Patrick, when hitherto she had told them she hadn't sent or received any messages that night. The message was written in a way that in Italian meant she was going to meet the recipient of the message that night. When they asked her who it was to, she broke down in tears and started hitting herself in the head saying over and over 'It's him, it's Patrick, he's bad, he murdered Meredith'.

You may be none the wiser Kestrel, but at least now you're better informed.

 

[Fulcanelli]

It should have taken less than a day to verify that the prints found on the scene didn't match Lumumba. His story of where he was the night of the murders could have been checked out that same day. But they kept him for two weeks. As we have seen before, Giuliano Mignini doesn't mind locking up innocent people

First of all, they had many multiple prints to get through and identify. Second of all, even if the prints didn't match Patrick that wasn't enough to let him go. But anyway, nice of you to blame the police for Patrick's incarceration, instead of the real culprit, the one who falsley accused him and who was found guilty of it in a fair trial.

You seem to be running a strategy here Kestrel. Throw as much mud as possible and see how much will stick. Then, run off to fetch more FOA talking points.

 

[Kestrel]

Nobody is about to saint RG for his part in Meredith's killing, Kestrel. But we know beyond a reasonable doubt that he did not act alone. All the supporting evidence points to both RS and AK. To ignore this is to ignore reality, science, reason, scepticism, and logic.

The official prosecution conspiracy theory has AK and RS struggling with the victim for 15 minutes. Rudy is in the room at that same time and leaves his DNA and fingerprints all over the place. But somehow AK leaves no fingerprints and no DNA in that room. RS leaves no fingerprints and only one small bit of his DNA that isn't collected when the scene is first processed. It's claimed that RS and AK somehow clean up the room of evidence pointing to them, while magically leaving all the blood splatters and evidence pointing to Rudy in place. Why should any skeptic believe this absurd story?

The guy who's fingerprints were found in the victims blood is clearly guilty. Rudy had minimal contact with RS and AK. We are expected to believe he would join a murderous conspiracy with people he barely knew. To a skeptic, this should be a red flag.

 

[Fulcanelli]

But somehow AK leaves no fingerprints and no DNA in that room. RS leaves no fingerprints and only one small bit of his DNA that isn't collected when the scene is first processed.

You talk about it like it's a competition. That, whoever left the most forensics is the winner and should be judged guilty, while those who left less should be judged innocent and let go (right, you left 7 footprints, off to jail for you...you left only 6, you're free to go). It doesn't work like that. This is the real World.

 

[Fulcanelli]

The guy who's fingerprints were found in the victims blood is clearly guilty. Rudy had minimal contact with RS and AK. We are expected to believe he would join a murderous conspiracy with people he barely knew. To a skeptic, this should be a red flag.

Your problem Kestrel, is you're overly picky 'where' you choose to look for your red flags. When it comes to the 'multitude' of red flags with Amanda and Raffaele, you suddenly develop a serious case of colour blindness.

 

[Kestrel]

Hardly Kestrel, but it's a nice fantasy though. One that makes no sense. Amanda wasn't even a suspect when she was questioned, the police had no idea she was in any way involved in the crime or knew who was. She wasn't even called to the station. They called in Raffaele because they wanted to speak to him alone. She insisted on going with him. While Raffaele was being questioned, since Amanda was there, they thought they may as well ask her some questions, so they questioned her informally in the police station public waiting room. Hardly iron maidens and thumb screws.

They became suspicious of Amanda because during his questioning Raffaele dropped Amanda's alibi and told police she'd left his apartment to go to Le Chic and he'd told them a load of rubbish before because Amanda had told him to. Then, when asking to look at Amanda's phone they saw the text to Patrick, when hitherto she had told them she hadn't sent or received any messages that night. The message was written in a way that in Italian meant she was going to meet the recipient of the message that night. When they asked her who it was to, she broke down in tears and started hitting herself in the head saying over and over 'It's him, it's Patrick, he's bad, he murdered Meredith'.

You may be none the wiser Kestrel, but at least now you're better informed.

The police have the exact sequence of messages from that night. Patrick sends a message telling Amanda she doesn't need to come to work that night. Amanda responds with "See you later, have a nice evening". A perfectly normal conversation for the situation.

So why don't Italian police record interviews with suspects?

 

[Kestrel]

Your problem Kestrel, is you're overly picky 'where' you choose to look for your red flags. When it comes to the 'multitude' of red flags with Amanda and Raffaele, you suddenly develop a serious case of colour blindness.

Yet again you respond with an insult rather than dealing with the question at hand.

Why would Rudy join in this conspiracy?

 

[Fulcanelli]

The police have the exact sequence of messages from that night. Patrick sends a message telling Amanda she doesn't need to come to work that night. Amanda responds with "See you later, have a nice evening". A perfectly normal conversation for the situation.

What's your basis for this assertion? Like all your assertions it's incorrect. They didn't have the text Patrick sent Amanda, Amanda had deleted it from her phone (another thing they found suspicious).

So why don't Italian police record interviews with suspects?

Because they weren't suspects? They were being questioned as witnesses.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Why would Rudy join in this conspiracy?

Conspiracy to what?

 

[Fulcanelli]

Yet again you respond with an insult rather than dealing with the question at hand.

It's hardly an insult. It's an accurate observation. The truth just 'is'.