Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[Kestrel]

This makes sense except for the following:

1. If a cell phone is lost or stolen one can contact their service provider and have the service suspended. This can be done in minutes after having notified the cell phone provider.

2. I would imagine that in a college town like Perugia most if all students have cell phones. So who would be the market for a stolen phone?

Europe uses GSM phones. You can simply swap the SIM card and start using the phone. New SIM cards are available from any store that carries cell phones.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Look at the diagram of the flat on Wikipedia. There is only one door and it enters the living room. Unless the investigators crawled in the window, they had to enter through the living room.

I suspect you are bright enough to figure out why blood traces from two women who share a bathroom might be found in a bidet in that bathroom. It's an expected result even when no crime has occurred. The forensic team presented it as evidence in this case. Since when does finding the expected become proof of guilt?

Because Stefanoni only swabbed the surface of the dried blood, not right through to the surface of the sink or bidet below. Ergo, the DNA must have been deposited mixed in with the blood when it was fresh, or long after the murder when the blood was dry and so leaving DNA on the surface. The latter wasn't the case since Amanda didn't use the sink or bidet the morning after, only the shower.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Here is my theory. There is a ready market for stolen cell phones. Rudy took them to sell. After leaving the flat he figured out that keeping them after murdering the owner was a really bad idea. So he tossed them.

Now you are REALLY reaching. He took them, only to change his mind a couple of minutes later.

And he did all this, leaving bloody fingerprints in the cottage, so his hands were covered in blood, yet there wasn't so much as a micro trace of blood on the phones. Moreover, why didn't he dump the keys and/or knife at the same time with the phones?

Why take the phones in the first place, yet leave Meredith's i-pod (and we know he likes those), leave Filomena's expensive jewelery, designer sunglasses and clothes? Leave Laura's Filomena's, Laura's and Amanda's expensive laptop computers yet took two phones only to throw them away a couple of minutes later? That sounds logical to you?

 

[Jungle Jim]

It is all speculation Jungle Jim. It appears that there is reason to suppose Kercher was not dead when they left her and I have speculated (as have others) that they took the phones in order to ensure she could not call for help. It is not likely that she could have done that given her injuries: but they may not have known that.

Wait, your suggesting that after a pretty brutal assault the attackers left her alive but took her cell phones so she could not have called for help? That boggles the mind. What if she had survived the attack and was able to name her assailants?

 

[Fiona]

Indeed. As I say this is all speculation and that is indeed a problem. Perhaps they knew she would die but did not care to stay and watch? Perhaps they were not thinking very straight? I do not know JJ: only they know and they are not saying. But a robbery motive makes no sense at all for the reasons Fulcanelli gave. As we do not have any real idea you are also free to suggest what makes sense to you. I doubt we will ever know

 

[Fulcanelli]

Wait, your suggesting that after a pretty brutal assault the attackers left her alive but took her cell phones so she could not have called for help? That boggles the mind. What if she had survived the attack and was able to name her assailants?

They'd stabbed her deep in the throat. I don't think they thought for a moment she'd survive.

 

[Jungle Jim]

Europe uses GSM phones. You can simply swap the SIM card and start using the phone. New SIM cards are available from any store that carries cell phones.

Clearly I don't understand how European cell phones work. What does one do in Europe if a cell phone is lost or stolen?

 

[Fulcanelli]

Indeed. As I say this is all speculation and that is indeed a problem. Perhaps they knew she would die but did not care to stay and watch? Perhaps they were not thinking very straight? I do not know JJ: only they know and they are not saying. But a robbery motive makes no sense at all for the reasons Fulcanelli gave. As we do not have any real idea you are also free to suggest what makes sense to you. I doubt we will ever know

Well, they did stay and watch, kind of. They only ran as far as the basketball square and then watched the cottage gate from the railings.

 

[Fiona]

Not quite the same perhaps, Fulcanelli. But I do not know why they took then ditched the phones and that is the only sense I can make of it. In the end I am not all that happy in second guessing their states of mind: we cannot know and it is unlikely to be wholly rational IMO

 

[Kestrel]

Clearly I don't understand how European cell phones work. What does one do in Europe if a cell phone is lost or stolen?

Call up and get your service cancelled if you are paying by the month, then buy a new phone and a new SIM card.

If you are paying by the minute, the minutes you already paid for probably belong to the thief.

 

[Jungle Jim]

Indeed. As I say this is all speculation and that is indeed a problem. Perhaps they knew she would die but did not care to stay and watch? Perhaps they were not thinking very straight? I do not know JJ: only they know and they are not saying. But a robbery motive makes no sense at all for the reasons Fulcanelli gave. As we do not have any real idea you are also free to suggest what makes sense to you. I doubt we will ever know

I agree the robbery motive makes no sense. I don't have any other ideas at the moment.

On another matter, has any one proposed a time line regarding Rudy and (a) him having sex with Meredith, (b) his bowel movement, and (c) his involvement in the murder. The timing of bowel movement is particularly bizarre.

 

[shuttlt]

Clearly I don't understand how European cell phones work. What does one do in Europe if a cell phone is lost or stolen?

Report it to your network service provider who block the sim card. You then have to get waste police time by waffling to them about how it was stolen to get a crime reference number in order to claim on the insurance, assuming you took out insurance.

 

[Jungle Jim]

Call up and get your service cancelled if you are paying by the month, then buy a new phone and a new SIM card. Same as the U.S.

If you are paying by the minute, the minutes you already paid for probably belong to the thief.

So there's a black market for minutes?

 

[Fiona]

Not really. They sell the phone and the buyer gets a new sim card.

 

[Fulcanelli]

I agree the robbery motive makes no sense. I don't have any other ideas at the moment.

On another matter, has any one proposed a time line regarding Rudy and (a) him having sex with Meredith, (b) his bowel movement, and (c) his involvement in the murder. The timing of bowel movement is particularly bizarre.

Yes, the prosecution did here PROSECUTION TIMELINE

 

[Kestrel]

Yes, the prosecution did here PROSECUTION TIMELINE

Does anyone else have a problem with Meredith not screaming during the first 15 minutes of the attack?

 

[Jungle Jim]

Yes, the prosecution did here PROSECUTION TIMELINE

Thanks for the link.

23:21 - Amanda and Raffaele go to Amanda’s room while Rudy goes to the bathroom.

23:25 – A scuffle ensues between Amanda and Meredith; Sollecito assists Amanda. Meredith is taken by the neck and slammed against the wall, as demonstrated by head wounds. As this occurs, Rudy returns from the bathroom and joins in.

23:45 – Meredith is helped to her feet by Rudy and is coughing up blood. The English girl, now dying, is then dragged to the side and the undressing continues. WTF?

23:50 - Amanda and Raffaele take Meredith’s cell phones and leave the apartment. Rudy remains at the cottage briefly as Meredith dies. So according to the prosecution it was not Rudy who took the cell phones.

The time line seems to indicate that while Rudy was all for rape, he was a bit taken aback when it progressed to murder.

 

[Jungle Jim]

Does anyone else have a problem with Meredith not screaming during the first 15 minutes of the attack?

We don't know that she didn't scream, only that a scream was heard at 23:40. You know like does a tree falling in the woods make noise if there is no one to hear it?

 

[Kestrel]

We don't know that she didn't scream, only that a scream was heard at 23:40. You know like does a tree falling in the woods make noise if there is no one to hear it?

Since there were no witnesses or video cameras in the room, how do we know the attack went on for 15 minutes?

Do Italian prosecutors have psychic powers?

 

[Fulcanelli]

Does anyone else have a problem with Meredith not screaming during the first 15 minutes of the attack?

No, not really. Meredith was busy struggling for her life. The blood curdling scream that carried and was heard would have been understandable in response to Raffaele's prod into her neck with a knife...that one was 4 cm's deep. The combination of agony and a real understanding at that point will have caused the scream. I don't see why she would have 'had' to have screamed before then.