Vegetarian: Arguments For and Against Vegetarianism

[yy2bggggs]

Jadey,

I may be reading something into your statement here that you're not saying,

I agree. You may be reading something into Jadey's statement.

 

[Ambrosia]

@ambrosia- I see you corrected yourself and pointed out a vegan diet is much harder to balance than a vegetarian diet. I noted several other posts that kinda made the suggestion that a vegetarian diet is harder to balance than one with meat. I'd just like to point out that in my personal experience a vegetarian diet was much easier to balance. I'd say my weight was much more steady, as were my energy levels.

More clarified than corrected but...

I find it interesting that you found a diet with less options in it easier to live with than one with more options. Then you switched back. Did you find that after reverting back to eating meat it was still easy to balance your diet, or did it get harder again?

 

[Rasmus]

Uhm... no. I don't buy that argument. This is essentially ignoring the costs. Somewhere along the lines both burden and sustainability comes into play.

What are the costs of keeping rape illegal? Or murder? Do we really care?

I agree that "it tastes good" isn't an argument for the morality. "We evolved that way" isn't either, but it's a legitimate factor, and should be weighed in.

Rape may feel good. How strongly should that be weighted in?

 

[quadraginta]

What are the costs of keeping rape illegal? Or murder? Do we really care?



Rape may feel good. How strongly should that be weighted in?

If you are equating the ethics of including meat in a diet with rape and murder, and you don't understand why people have trouble engaging in rational conversation on the subject with you, then there is really no hope of communication.

Fanaticism cannot be reasoned with. This is the sort of extremism that gives sane vegetarians a bad name.

 

[yy2bggggs]

What are the costs of keeping rape illegal? Or murder? Do we really care?

Why are you posting on the internet? There are starving kids in Africa. For that matter, why is your feeble old neighbor crocheting? There are starving kids in Africa. Shouldn't the both of you be spending all of your spare time trying to feed the starving kids in Africa?

Rape may feel good. How strongly should that be weighted in?

Non-sequitur and straw man. That rape might feel good has nothing to do with burden or sustainability.

What you said in post #128 is that since it's possible, for example, it's possible for you to do more to help starving kids in Africa, then you need to find a specific reason to eat meat in order to do so. So what is your specific reason not to spend all of your spare time trying to feed the starving kids in Africa? And is there a limit to how much you should expend of yourself to rectify the situation? If not, does that mean there's no limit as to how much you should expect of your old lady neighbor for her to rectify the situation?

ETA:

My point is that at some point burden and sustainability come into play, and it's not sufficient to establish merely that it's possible. You seem to have latched onto the fact that I was disagreeing with your argument, and as a result imagined that I was claiming that rape's feeling good was a factor, rather than address the particular point I was disagreeing with.

 

[Drudgewire]

Rape may feel good. How strongly should that be weighted in?

Dunno. How much better does raping a cow make it taste?

 

[JimBenArm]

Great. Another thread on this. Good thing we haven't beat this subject to death.

I'll save everyone time here. All meat-eaters are unthinking brutes who don't care about animals or their welfare. All vegetarians/vegans are tree-hugging simpletons who care more about animals and their welfare than fellow humans.

That should pretty much cover it.

 

[Drudgewire]

Great. Another thread on this. Good thing we haven't beat this subject to death.

I'll save everyone time here. All meat-eaters are unthinking brutes who don't care about animals or their welfare. All vegetarians/vegans are tree-hugging simpletons who care more about animals and their welfare than fellow humans.

That should pretty much cover it.

But we all agree jayhawks are a useless burden on the ecosystem and should be wiped out post haste.

 

[quadraginta]

Great. Another thread on this. Good thing we haven't beat this subject to death.

I'll save everyone time here. All meat-eaters are unthinking brutes who don't care about animals or their welfare. All vegetarians/vegans are tree-hugging simpletons who care more about animals and their welfare than fellow humans.

That should pretty much cover it.

Our kitties shared Holiday turkey with me. Mrs. qg, who's vegetarian, didn't. The vicious predators cute little kittehs didn't care anything about the spinach casserole we made especially for her.

How's that for conflicted?

 

[JimBenArm]

But we all agree jayhawks are a useless burden on the ecosystem and should be wiped out post haste.

Since I'm on the Missouri side of the border, I agree with this!

 

[Drudgewire]

Since I'm on the Missouri side of the border, I agree with this!

 

[quadraginta]

Since I'm on the Missouri side of the border, I agree with this!

http://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/hfive.gif

I'm guessing this means you weren't talking about the band.

 

[Drudgewire]

I'm guessing this means you weren't talking about the band.

I didn't even know there was a band until I wiki'd to make sure Jayhawk was one word.

 

[JimBenArm]

I'm guessing this means you weren't talking about the band.

Kansas University, whose mascot is the Jayhawk. Comes from the term used in the Missouri/Kansas border war for Kansas Free-Staters.

Being in Kansas City, I'm close to Kansas University, Kansas State University (the Wildcats) and Missouri University (the Tigers), all of whom play in the Big Twelve conference. Big rivalry between the three of them. However, since I didn't go to any of them, I can pick and choose who I support and harrass at will. Today, as it happens, is KU's turn.

 

[quadraginta]

I know. I'm teasing.

ETA: I claim to root for Duke, Carolina, or NC State, depending on which will irritate whoever I'm with the most.

 

[Tiktaalik]

Our kitties shared Holiday turkey with me. Mrs. qg, who's vegetarian, didn't. The vicious predators cute little kittehs didn't care anything about the spinach casserole we made especially for her.

How's that for conflicted?

Actually, that brings up another point. If one decides to go veg, what does one feed one's cats? I understand they're obligate meat-eaters. Where does the pet food industry fall in all this?

 

[Drudgewire]

Actually, that brings up another point. If one decides to go veg, what does one feed one's cats? I understand they're obligate meat-eaters. Where does the pet food industry fall in all this?

There are vegan cat foods, but at least the vegan I dated decided she'd rather not extend her lifestyle choice to her cat... although it was only after discovering her cat wouldn't touch that crap with the dog's tongue.

 

[Rasmus]

If you are equating the ethics of including meat in a diet with rape and murder,

I am not.

and you don't understand why people have trouble engaging in rational conversation on the subject with you, then there is really no hope of communication.

Fanaticism cannot be reasoned with. This is the sort of extremism that gives sane vegetarians a bad name.

I am not a vegetarian.

 

[Rasmus]

What you said in post #128 is that since it's possible, for example, it's possible for you to do more to help starving kids in Africa, then you need to find a specific reason to eat meat in order to do so. So what is your specific reason not to spend all of your spare time trying to feed the starving kids in Africa?

I am not a terribly ethical person?

ETA:

My point is that at some point burden and sustainability come into play, and it's not sufficient to establish merely that it's possible. You seem to have latched onto the fact that I was disagreeing with your argument, and as a result imagined that I was claiming that rape's feeling good was a factor, rather than address the particular point I was disagreeing with.

That I can agree with, even though to a much lesser degree than you seem to be suggesting. I am much less of a good person than I could and quite possibly should be.

And I do think that for most people it would easily be possible to change to a vegetarian diet. Imagine you'd develop a deadly allergy against meat tomorrow - I am certain you would find it quite possible to adjust. I see that most people - me included - don't want to adjust. but that alone really isn't a factor when deciding what is ethical.

 

[Symbol]

Great. Another thread on this. Good thing we haven't beat this subject to death.

Everything has been discussed before. Except maybe today's news. Oh wait, even that was discussed earlier today.

Tell you what, at my next dinner party I will demand nobody discuss anything that has ever been discussed before.