"I am God" approach, version 1.0

[Hux]

Why would you want to have a conversation with someone who thinks they are God? You should be putting some distance between you and this person who has delusions of grandeur.

 

[GreyICE]

Of course he would and could if he wanted to, but how can you be sure that he would care at all whether you believe "his" declaration or not? I think you're assuming too much here. In short, where is your evidence that God would have this effect on people?

If God did not care if I believed that he was God, why would he declare himself to be God to me? If he is actually God, then he must wish me to have some amount of belief in his declaration. Unless we are reverting to the trickster God, which has always been a nonstarter.

(yes, I'm switching to the default masculine)

 

[Kuko 4000]

Why would you want to have a conversation with someone who thinks they are God? You should be putting some distance between you and this person who has delusions of grandeur.

Well, yeah, but there are many people who worship people as though they were divine today. Probably many people who worship people as a God too. And in fact, I am interested to hear what people who seriously claim to be somehow divine have to say. Mostly because I want to try and prove them wrong.

 

[Hux]

Good luck with that. I think you'll find suitable medication would disabuse them of that notion long before you would.

 

[Kuko 4000]

If God did not care if I believed that he was God, why would he declare himself to be God to me? If he is actually God, then he must wish me to have some amount of belief in his declaration. Unless we are reverting to the trickster God, which has always been a nonstarter.

(yes, I'm switching to the default masculine)

For just about infinite reasons, he could just be walking around down here and decide to have some fun talking to people. I don't understand where you get the idea that God must wish you to act in any particular way at all?

 

[Kuko 4000]

Good luck with that. I think you'll find suitable medication would disabuse them of that notion long before you would.

Don't know about changing any "Gods" minds, but I'm happy just to know more about human nature through open discussion.

 

[FSM]

Why would you want to have a conversation with someone who thinks they are God? You should be putting some distance between you and this person who has delusions of grandeur.

RIGHT! And who would use that old, lame, "I'm a god," schtick, anyway?

 

[GreyICE]

For just about infinite reasons, he could just be walking around down here and decide to have some fun talking to people. I don't understand where you get the idea that God must wish you to act in any particular way at all?

If we are simply positing that God is just doing things 'just because' then everything becomes irrelevant. We could have all been created last Tuesday. Discussions like this could just be the result of you typing to yourself and imagining the replies, because God finds it funny. The laws of mathematics could break down next week because God got bored of them.

It's not a sustainable postulate because of that. If we must choose between an insane universe and a sane one, I observe a sane one. Those observations may be the result of an insane universe being whimsical, but at that point it's turtles all the way down.

 

[AvalonXQ]

But, I don't think you are playing the game I had in mind, though. If you catch me on some things where my knowledge of the bible is not good I can always say that this is not true anymore (I am God after all, and can change my mind and everything else whenever I want to) or whatever I can imagine, and you would just have to accept it or not accept it, purely on faith.

This is exactly what I'm going to do, and it works just fine -- because the Bible itself warns us that supernatural creatures may be liars, and that we can use our existing knowledge of the truth of the Bible against them.
According to Paul's letter to the Galations, we are to reject anyone who claims to preach a Gospel other than that which is already preached.
So, sorry -- you don't get to give any answer you want. Your wrong answer to my question has already proven that you cannot be God; God would answer correctly.
I'll point out, again, that I'm not "pretending" to "play the role" of a believer -- I actually am one.

 

[Kuko 4000]

If we are simply positing that God is just doing things 'just because' then everything becomes irrelevant. We could have all been created last Tuesday. Discussions like this could just be the result of you typing to yourself and imagining the replies, because God finds it funny. The laws of mathematics could break down next week because God got bored of them.

It's not a sustainable postulate because of that. If we must choose between an insane universe and a sane one, I observe a sane one. Those observations may be the result of an insane universe being whimsical, but at that point it's turtles all the way down.

The only thing I'm saying is that an omnipotent God could do anything, including having created us last tuesday as you suggested. You seem to say that there is no good reasons to believe in this kind of God, and I agree. But this is not the issue I'm talking about here. If you were a Christian, how would you prove that I am not a God?

 

[Kuko 4000]

But, I don't think you are playing the game I had in mind, though. If you catch me on some things where my knowledge of the bible is not good I can always say that this is not true anymore (I am God after all, and can change my mind and everything else whenever I want to) or whatever I can imagine, and you would just have to accept it or not accept it, purely on faith.

This is exactly what I'm going to do, and it works just fine -- because the Bible itself warns us that supernatural creatures may be liars, and that we can use our existing knowledge of the truth of the Bible against them.
According to Paul's letter to the Galations, we are to reject anyone who claims to preach a Gospel other than that which is already preached.
So, sorry -- you don't get to give any answer you want. Your wrong answer to my question has already proven that you cannot be God; God would answer correctly.
I'll point out, again, that I'm not "pretending" to "play the role" of a believer -- I actually am one.

I suspected that was the case, which was the reason I answered Yes, I wanted to point out that I am an omnipotent God who can change the rules at any times. The new rule is that you can wear whatever you want.

How would you differentiate between a real God that wants to change rules and a fake god who wants to change the rules. Or are you saying that a real God cannot change the rules because of what the Bible says?

And in any case, imagine that I know the Bible inside out, there is not a single verse where you could possibly catch me, how would you then try to prove that I am not your God?

 

[Darth Rotor]

Ok, I don't know if this is something old, but this approach / variation came to my mind recently and I hope you guys could test me a bit and help to spot any obvious holes and problems there might be. I haven't given it that much thought yet, but it seems a pretty solid way to illustrate a point. I like talking to people about their beliefs. Here in Finland it's mostly christians, and this approach is aimed at them.

It goes like this:

"I am God."

There.

You made the claim.

You prove/support it. I will be happy to see your evidence. I think Mister Randi would be happy as well.

(In re "I am God/ I am an atheist:" Sorry you don't believe in yourself, but I am sure a shrink can help you. )

DR

 

[AvalonXQ]

How would you differentiate between a real God that wants to change rules and a fake god who wants to change the rules. Or are you saying that a real God cannot change the rules because of what the Bible says?

I am saying that the God of the Bible will not change the rules because of what the Bible says.
That's the God you claimed to be, and in that you failed.

 

[Kuko 4000]

I am saying that the God of the Bible will not change the rules because of what the Bible says.
That's the God you claimed to be, and in that you failed.

Ok, hold on a moment, give me a chance, this is quite interesting. Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you not open to the possibility that the God of the Bible could change his own rules in the middle of the game if he wanted to (for some reason that we just don't understand)?

 

[AvalonXQ]

Ok, hold on a moment, give me a chance, this is quite interesting. Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you not open to the possibility that the God of the Bible could change his own rules in the middle of the game if he wanted to (for some reason that we just don't understand)?

That's correct; I am not open to that possibility.
Again, the possibility of deception by evil supernatural creatures is met in Biblical texts, and its instructions are clear -- if the message is inconsistent with the rules you already have, the message is not from God!

 

[Darth Rotor]

That's correct; I am not open to that possibility.
Again, the possibility of deception by evil supernatural creatures is met in Biblical texts, and its instructions are clear -- if the message is inconsistent with the rules you already have, the message is not from God!

Oh, dear, that worm in the bottom of the Mezcal bottle was lying!
(Hmmm, maybe it's form should have been the clue I needed. Snake. Worm. *slaps own forehead* silly me.)

DR

 

[GreyICE]

The only thing I'm saying is that an omnipotent God could do anything, including having created us last tuesday as you suggested. You seem to say that there is no good reasons to believe in this kind of God, and I agree. But this is not the issue I'm talking about here. If you were a Christian, how would you prove that I am not a God?

It's already been demonstrated. The trickster God, the God of the gaps is a philosophical non-starter, that simply does not work with a rational universe. We have observed a rational universe. This could be part of an elaborate deception (it is certainly possible for God), but postulating so beggars belief - as if the entire universe was structured solely to appear rational, just so you could get some sort of jollies asking Christians if you were hypothetically God on an internet forum and see what their answers were while you had the pleasure of knowing you were actually God.

So, as you point out, the question of 'proof,' especially of negatives, is impossible (a new and clever observation, to be sure), but any Christian sufficiently advanced passed the most basic stage of logic will simply point out that the logical inconsistencies that you have allowed pass for your postulate to be true render all of the Universe an insane whim. Then they can point out that your 'faith' hasn't even been strong enough to inspire a second believer.

 

[Kuko 4000]

That's correct; I am not open to that possibility.
Again, the possibility of deception by evil supernatural creatures is met in Biblical texts, and its instructions are clear -- if the message is inconsistent with the rules you already have, the message is not from God!

So imagine if a God game down from the heavens and through your ceiling, splitted out to form Jesus, Holy Ghost and Himself in your living room, showed you everything in the past from the time before Big Bang through to first cell, dinosaurs, Jesus, Darwin and even tomorrow's Lottery numbers and would take you to heaven after you died, and would never do anything bad to anyone, only good things, he even saves saves every living creature in the world from dying and places them to heaven, you would still just think of him as some kind of evil supernatural creature and not believe Him to be who He says He is - the real God of the Bible who just changed his mind a bit?

Is this correct?

 

[Kuko 4000]

Btw. Thanks for the discussion guys, a friend is coming over in a short while and I'm gonna have to take a break soon. I hope to reply later today, it's already 8 PM here so it's likely I'm gonna have to wait until tomorrow. I really appreciate your time.

 

[aviolet4u]

Yeah I don't understand how we are supposed to believe without question that those people who wrote the holy books were divinely inspired, prophets etc.

There are so many people today claiming they are prophets...why do millions of people not take them seriously? Anyone who talks to God and carries messages today is a false prophet...the ones in the past who have are the real deal.