"Fish are smart, can use tools, and have long-term memories"

[Ladewig]

From a Naples news site

“Although not as familiar to us as dogs and cats, fish deserve kindness just like the animals with whom we share our homes,” says PETA Executive Vice President Tracy Reiman. “Causing these gentle animals of the sea to suffocate to death or die slowly from infections caused by hooks is animal abuse, plain and simple.”

Scientific studies confirm that fish are sensitive individuals who feel pain, just as dogs and cats do. A recent issue of Fish and Fisheries cited more than 500 research papers on fish intelligence demonstrating that fish are smart, can use tools, and have impressive long-term memories and sophisticated social structures.

My GoogleFu is weak so maybe I simply missed the peer-reviewed papers. Does anyone know where this claim originally came from?

 

[theprestige]

Fish? Or Sea Kittens?

 

[Furcifer]

From a Naples news site
My GoogleFu is weak so maybe I simply missed the peer-reviewed papers. Does anyone know where this claim originally came from?

I had an Oscar I trained to beg and eat out of my hand. When ever I would walk by the aquarium and he was hungry, he'd go to the front and look at me, then look up, then look at me, then look up. I could hand feed him worms. He'd jump a good foot out of the tank to snatch a worm out of my hand.

I don't recommend this though. I walked by the tank a few times and couldn't see him, only to find him gasping for air outside the tank in the space between the wall and the stand. I had tempered glass pieces fitted on the top, but when he got big enough he couldn't jump up and knock the glass off. He (I think it was a he, I never really asked) eventually did this in the middle of the night and didn't last till I found him Very smart with good long term memory, but not so good with self preservation.

 

[athon]

No scientific paper would describe fish as 'smart'. The word is heavy with connotation and is too vague to study.

They might have some hardwired intelligence, prompting them to move rocks for special use or have some social systems. Fish might recognise certain patterns, for instance, and even be trained up to a certain extent.

The long bow they try to draw by this, however, is that intelligence and ability to suffer go hand-in-hand, therefore fish shouldn't be hunted. If you can sympathise with their perception of harm, you shouldn't hook them and eat them.

Athon

 

[theprestige]

The long bow they try to draw by this, however, is that intelligence and ability to suffer go hand-in-hand, therefore fish shouldn't be hunted. If you can sympathise with their perception of harm, you shouldn't hook them and eat them.

All I know is, the more PETA tries to convince me that animals should be taken off the menu, the more I ask myself why people shouldn't be on the menu.

I mean, if their whole point is that animals are like people, doesn't that also mean that people are like animals?

 

[fuelair]

From a Naples news site



My GoogleFu is weak so maybe I simply missed the peer-reviewed papers. Does anyone know where this claim originally came from?

Someone's rectum IIRC. Pulled out by hand.

 

[fuelair]

All I know is, the more PETA tries to convince me that animals should be taken off the menu, the more I ask myself why people shouldn't be on the menu.

I mean, if their whole point is that animals are like people, doesn't that also mean that people are like animals?

Perhaps PETA members should volunteer themselves for this - to save their little animal friends.

 

[Cuddles]

The problem I have with articles like this is that they mix legitimate criticisms in with complete nonsense, making the legitimate parts less likely to be taken seriously. I honestly cannot see how many common methods of catching fish don't count as animal abuse. People complain about fluffy cows and sheeps not being given quite enough space to grow up in before being killed instantly and painlessly, but they apparently have no problem at all with stabbing something in the mouth, dragging it around by the cheek for a while and then dumping it on the floor to slowly suffocate.

This in no way suggests that fish are intelligent tool-users. You don't need to be intelligent to suffer, and there can be little doubt that fish do not particularly enjoy being stabbed and suffocated. There's no need to pretend fish are anything more than they actually are in order to point out the staggering hypocrisy of people who whine about the humane killing of mammals, but don't give a damn about the torture of fish. I get especially annoyed at people who claim to be vegetarian on animal cruelty grounds, but still eat fish.

For the record, I'll eat pretty much anything, although I don't particularly like fish anyway so I rarely have it. My problem isn't with the way fish are killed, it's with people who pretend that there's something magically different about fish that means they're not meat and don't deserve any kind of consideration at all.

 

[dogjones]

"Gentle animals of the sea" - honestly.

The best way to catch a snapper is with a little bit of snapper as bait.

There ain't no love down there.

 

[Modified]

I had an Oscar I trained to beg and eat out of my hand. When ever I would walk by the aquarium and he was hungry, he'd go to the front and look at me, then look up, then look at me, then look up. I could hand feed him worms. He'd jump a good foot out of the tank to snatch a worm out of my hand.

I don't recommend this though. I walked by the tank a few times and couldn't see him, only to find him gasping for air outside the tank in the space between the wall and the stand...

I did a similar thing with the bluegill in a pond behind my house. I also had them eventually jumping to get the food (bread). The results were equally disastrous. In becoming used to me, they also became less afraid of other visitors, and they were all eaten by wading birds.

 

[gregthehammer]

I honestly cannot see how many common methods of catching fish don't count as animal abuse. ...but they apparently have no problem at all with stabbing something in the mouth, dragging it around by the cheek for a while and then dumping it on the floor to slowly suffocate.

QUOTE]

In the defense of the fisherman, it's 99 percent of the time the fish stabbing themselves, we just put the hooks out there. There are the few times when a fish gets snagged, but mostly, fish are quite masochistic.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

I saw the thread title and thought "PETA".
Sure enough...

 

[Furcifer]

In becoming used to me, they also became less afraid of other visitors, and they were all eaten by wading birds.

That's crappie

It makes you wonder how their brains are wired. I'm sure every one has heard how goldfish cab barely remember to breath, and can very easily overeat themselves to death. They seem very motivated by food and very stupid at the same time. It's no wonder the fish has long been seen symbolicaly as "food" or a life source.

They also seem to have very little of a nervous system to speak of. I honestly don't believe they suffer much beyond knowing they aren't eating.

 

[Andrew Wiggin]

All I know is, the more PETA tries to convince me that animals should be taken off the menu, the more I ask myself why people shouldn't be on the menu.

I mean, if their whole point is that animals are like people, doesn't that also mean that people are like animals?

Human, the other other other white meat. (pork and kitten come first)

A

 

[mummymonkey]

Well there are many different kinds of fish. Some species build nests, hold territorries and show a high degree of parental care. Many show the ability to learn and have excellent long-term memories. They clearly feel pain and try to avoid it. They can communicate with each other.
I can't think right now of any examples of tool use other than the archer fish which is rather stretching the definition of tool.

 

[lionking]

Well I enjoyed my piece of Whiting tonight.

 

[biomorph]

PETA?

Cod 'elp us

 

[roger]

PETA?

Cod 'elp us

Are you angling for a controversy? I'm not biting. I've got bigger fish to fry.