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Split Thread 'Nose-out' footage

The 57 bricks fall at the same rate as the brick that's falling through air. It doesn't matter what happens before the edge of the roof begins to drop.

Hmm.. there were only two seconds of free fall noted at all, yet Gage's demonstration and your point is an argument trying to say that there was zero internal resistence. The more you post, the further you deviate from what actually happened. Go time the collapse. Note how the total collapse time in fact deviates from any notion that the entire structure was in any sort of free fall. It was measured to be 40% longer than it should have been had the roofline indeed been in free fall.

The more you post, the further away you put yourself from what actually occurred that day. Instead of just (to paraphrase) 'relying on the opinion of some other former architect who's just lying', you'd better look up the basics of WTC 7's collapse. A segment fell as a unit, most likely 8 stories total, and the uniform failure of that segment allowed part of the roof to fall without resistence until it impacted the collapsed section. The total time, even minus the penthouse collapse, refutes the notion of no internal resistence during the collapse. The time the collapse took proves exactly what Gage thinks he's arguing against, and that's that there were internal collisions and structure that had to be impacted before it failed.

But you don't see this because you quite obviously haven't tried to comprehend the original information. That's a bad spot to start from with us here.

How many professors of structural engineering need NIST to tell them that burning jet fuel can't melt steel? Why did two structural engineers tell the BBC that's why the towers fell? Journalists have been blamed for these early stories that turned out to be false, but it's clear now they came from qualified engineers. I wonder if Dunning and Kruger realized how wrong the experts can be.

Even after being told that this demonstrates that researchers not involved with the US government don't find anything suspicious about the collapses, you still miss the point? Really? You're that dense? You work on one professor's early misapprehension, ignoring the fact that he last looked at that aspect of the incident back in 2002, didn't have the benefit of NIST's findings, and still didn't find anything suspicious?

On top of that, you yourself discuss one professor and two engineers who stated something at odds with the NIST report and don't realize that you yourself just negated your earlier post saying that these independent researchers:
... haven't looked into it and are simply relying on the opinions of other scientists and engineers who are lying.
You're so oblivious to your own inconsistency that you don't realize you refuted your own statement from earlier?

NIST said the collapse of building 7 could have been random. They got it so wrong that the mistake could only be deliberate.

Random? You mean when they said:
NCSTAR 1-1A said:
... there was a great increase in the uncertainty in the progression of the collapse sequence, due to the random nature of the interactions, break up, disintegration, and falling of the debris.
Or when they said:
ibid said:
There are greater uncertainties in predicting the precise progression of the collapse sequence as the anaysis proceeded due to the random nature of the interaction, break up, disintegration, and falling of the debris. The uncertainties deriving from these random processes increasingly influenced the deterministic physics-based collapse process. Thus, the details of the progressoin of horizontal failure and final global collapse were sensitive to the uncertainties in how the building materials (steel, concrete) and building systems and contents interact, break up, and disintegrate.
Which one of those are you referring to? Those are entirely sensible statements about the difficulty of modeling through FEA the longer the collapse progresses. If you have an issue with these statements, expand on why they're wrong. Just stating "they got it so wrong..." is a cop out. You're hiding behind generalities. Explain what you think they got wrong. Let's see if you truly understand the argument.

Or are you talking about something else with the "random" mention? Citation, please, and explanation of what they meant by "random" and why they were wrong. Your posts have never proceeded from known events, which means we need to ask what in God's name you're talking about before we can explain anything. What statement by NIST saying some aspect of the collapse was "random" was so wrong that "it had to be deliberate"? Generalities don't cut it; quote the statement and explain why it's wrong.

-----

WTC 7's time for collapse completely indicates that internal resistence was met, and also disproves Gage's allegation by demonstrating the exact case he claims WTC 7 did not fit.

And "random" elements of the collapse creating difficulties for modeling is nothing more than a statement of fact. See above, and take the challenge. Try making real arguments, instead of stating unsupported generalities.
 
The ones who saw a plane, saw it on TV.

You leave out every single eyewitness in Manhattan when you try to make that claim.
My name is Jeff Benjamin and I was visiting a client, Axcelera Specialty Risk, on the 83rd floor of the North Tower when we observed an approaching aircraft (American Airlines Flt.11)from a distance of aprox. 3-4 miles. At the time we initially spotted the plane, it appeared to be level with us. We could distinctly identify the American airlines insignia and my client commented that perhaps the plane had taken off from Kennedy and was experiencing mechanical problems. As the plane approached us it seemed to climb. I stood up from the conference table and walked over to the window assuming as everyone did that there was no imminent danger. As the plane came closer we could see that it was traveling at a high rate of speed and the sound of the engines intensified. Immediately before impact we could see images in the cockpit and the plane banked sharply. A split second later we heard an echoing shot, fell to the floor and observed a fireball followed by debris which struck the side of the building. At the same time you could feel the building sway every so slightly for a brief moment. We immediately retreated towards the main part of the office where we noticed a huge fireball shooting out of the elevator shaft which quickly disappeared.
http://911digitalarchive.org/stories/details/7639

"I saw the plane come in. My office faces north. I just finished my coffee and I heard my friend say, 'Oh no, oh no.' This plane was coming right at us, then it went up and hit the upper floors. –Nicholas Scinicariello, 86th floor
Link

At some point after our arrival and after we had moved to the west side of West Street, I heard a loud roar of a jet, looked up and saw the second plane impact the south tower. At that point it was clear to me it was a terrorist attack. We stepped over small airplane aviation parts, on Vesey, continued west, continued looking at the building. - FDNY Chief Daniel Nigro

"I looked over my shoulder and saw the United Airlines plane coming. It came over the Statute of Liberty. It was just like a movie. It just directly was guided into the second tower." Lakshman Achuthan
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/12/nyregion/12VIGN.html?ex=1192766400&en=990f09a40f324af3&ei=5070

​
There are many more of these testimonies here:
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/whattheysaw:eyewitnessaccountsofthenycai

This claim has been refuted. There were eyewitnesses. Bardamu has forwarded an unsupportable, contradicted claim. Next myth, please.

ETA: Whoops. Sorry, Twinstead. I didn't see that you had beaten me to Gravy's link already.
 
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What drugs does Stanley do?

You trying to say that Praimnath didn't see it? :rolleyes:

Keep going, bardamu. You've only got 20-some more attempts to go for AA11, and 43 more to go for UA175. Because all of them saw it. And that still doesn't count the news cameramen who videotaped it, or other citizens who witnessed it but didn't happen to get interviewed by the news reporters.
 
ETA: Whoops. Sorry, Twinstead. I didn't see that you had beaten me to Gravy's link already.

It really needs to be pointed out to them more than once. They have no idea what the implications of their refusal to accept reality are concerning these witnesses.
 
Can it get any stupider than that?

Yes. From the infamously epic "Realistice" thread:

Christophera said:
Arus808 said:
There are photos out there of exactly what goes into prepping a building for demolitions. None of that were evident in the WTC towers.
Correct, so in order for the towers to come down like this, explosives had to be built in.

Yes. Christophera suggested that explosives were built into the towers during construction. Bill Smith's got a long way to go before he reaches epic levels of mental oblivion. So let's not use big league superlatives for minor league players, okay? ;):D
 
The fake video clowns are the dumbest truthers.

I saw both planes hit. ...
It was then when the second plane flew over us and slammed in to the south tower. The force of the blast knocked a couple of people standing with to the ground.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2041454#post2041454
Hundreds of eye witnesses, and there are conspiracy nuts trying to push lies. How many more years will ignorance continue? Debunked on 911, the no plane nonsense exposes the ignorance and fraud of a failed moronic movement.
 
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Yes. From the infamously epic "Realistice" thread:



Yes. Christophera suggested that explosives were built into the towers during construction. Bill Smith's got a long way to go before he reaches epic levels of mental oblivion. So let's not use big league superlatives for minor league players, okay? ;):D

I wrote that theory up more than three years ago. Here on the jref soon fter I came too. Maybe you can find it.
 
You trying to say that Praimnath didn't see it? :rolleyes:

Keep going, bardamu. You've only got 20-some more attempts to go for AA11, and 43 more to go for UA175. Because all of them saw it. And that still doesn't count the news cameramen who videotaped it, or other citizens who witnessed it but didn't happen to get interviewed by the news reporters.

Or put out a call on CNN for people who were there and only saw an explosion to call in. I have seen quite a few of those in various clips and interviews.
 
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It couldn't possibly be that those people weren't in a position to see the plane, huh bs? No, that's far too rational an explanation for you. :rolleyes:
 
It couldn't possibly be that those people weren't in a position to see the plane, huh bs? No, that's far too rational an explanation for you. :rolleyes:

There are some who were looking at about the right area when it exploded and they saw no plane .

And remember the Naudet Brothers video where the cameraman eacts to the explosion but not at all to the plane that came before it even though it roars in over his head from behind..
 
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What about just the NIST FAQ ? After all that was the document that most of the population read and the one that helped ease their worries. Therefore to a large extent it was even more important to get that document right. So shall we say just the FAQ then ?

Nah, because the FAQ's do not cover the entire report. It would be like reading the index aand table of contents of a textbook, and then wonder why you faail chemistry.
 
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Some posts moved to AAH.

Remember to attack the argument, not the arguer.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Gaspode
 
I wonder if any debunker wants to sink his teeth into this story and comment.This is just too juicy to let it go past on the jref conveyor belt without sweating you guys. What about you Fitzgibbon ?.


"I just happened to raise my head watching the Statue of Liberty and as I watched I saw this giant aircraft ... coming in slow motion towards me -- eye level, eye contact. And I just froze."

United Airlines Flight 175 slammed into the building, smashing through walls, bringing down the ceiling, breaking computers and overturning every desk -- except the one Praimnath had ducked under.

"I'm trembling and I'm crying, 'Lord, don't leave me here to die!' And I realize that I'm covered with debris when I try to get up," he said. "Peeking through the rubble, all I could see was the plane wing wedged at my office door, 20 feet from where I was." Stanley Praimnath Source''

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7Q1KxgeGZQ Intact wing stuck in doorway

'' The wing was stuck in the doorway even though it was carrying the jet fuel that exploded as soon as the plane got inside of the building.''
 
I think he's the luckiest SOB around.

What is there to debunk?

Yes, imagine if flight 175 had actually overturned Stanley's desk when it went through the steel perimeter columns into the building. Do you think he could have been injured....maybe even killed if it had managed to overturn the desk ?
 
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Yes, quite possibly.

Tell me about his desk?? Was it a big heavy oak desk? Or one of those wimpy cubicle desks. Was it attached to other things? I would like to know more about his desk.

Fetch Bo-bo!!
 

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