Why Herbal Remedies Work So Well

And this is how herbals can keep you up:
Herbal "sex aid" recalled.

Jen-On HerbalScience International, Inc. of City of Industry, California, which markets traditional Chinese herbal products, is conducting a voluntary nationwide recall of H S Joy of Love. The company is conducting this recall after being informed that an FDA lab analysis found the product contains Piperadino Vardenafil, an analog of Vardenafil, an FDA-approved drug for treating male erectile dysfunction (ED). Piperadino Vardenafil is close in structure to Vardenafil and may interact with nitrates found in some prescription drugs (such as nitroglycerin) to lower blood pressure to dangerous levels. Consumers with diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, or heart disease often take nitrates. ED is a common problem in men with these conditions, and consumers may seek these types of products to enhance sexual performance. Consumers who have the product should stop using it immediately and phone the company for instructions on obtaining a refund.
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From Consumer Health Digest #07-16 (e-mail newsletter) put out by quackwatch.org
 
Either that's a fairly old report, or it's not the first time that has happened.

Goes with the Chinese Herbal Eczema Ointment chock full of betamethasone. A bunch of mothers in the eczema clinic were full of praise for that stuff, and the dermatologists also saw an improvement in children who were on it, so they decided to do a study on it. Part of the study was running an analysis of what was in it, and they got a big surprise. That cream was just a prescription steriod ointment, repackaged.

Of course the problem is, like the herbal Viagra stuff, that real drugs have side effects and these are even more worrying if you don't actually know you're taking the drug. Any of the dermatologists could have "improved" these kids' skins with betamethasone ointment any time they liked, but they knew better, because they knew about the long term disadvantages.

But of course herbal remedies are so kind and safe and natural yadda yadda....

Rolfe.
 
That's real concern I have with naturopathy that I don't have with homeopathy; it actually just might be biologically potent. However, the side effects, contaminants and dosages are all vague if not completely unknown.

That scares me more than diluted water sometimes.

Athon
 
athon said:
That's real concern I have with naturopathy that I don't have with homeopathy; it actually just might be biologically potent. However, the side effects, contaminants and dosages are all vague if not completely unknown.

That scares me more than diluted water sometimes.

Athon
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But that's not really the issue here. The problem is not that some herbal thingies really do have effects, it is that quacks are simply putting real drugs into their remedies, but not telling anyone about it. This is not limited to naturopathy, there is no reason that homeopaths couldn't do exactly the same. If anything the homeopaths are actually doing this more, since many things marketed as homeopathic are really no such thing, they are simply herbal remedies given a different name. It would only be a very small step to go from putting herbs in your water to putting drugs in.
 
Cuddles said:
But that's not really the issue here. The problem is not that some herbal thingies really do have effects, it is that quacks are simply putting real drugs into their remedies, but not telling anyone about it. This is not limited to naturopathy, there is no reason that homeopaths couldn't do exactly the same. If anything the homeopaths are actually doing this more, since many things marketed as homeopathic are really no such thing, they are simply herbal remedies given a different name. It would only be a very small step to go from putting herbs in your water to putting drugs in.
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Yes, homeopaths have been caught adding clinically significant amounts of drugs to their products. They have no other way of reliably producing an effect.
 
Cuddles said:
But that's not really the issue here. The problem is not that some herbal thingies really do have effects, it is that quacks are simply putting real drugs into their remedies, but not telling anyone about it.
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Sorry, I should have extrapolated what I was saying by mentioning that there is no regulatory system that checks this. You're right.

This is not limited to naturopathy, there is no reason that homeopaths couldn't do exactly the same. If anything the homeopaths are actually doing this more, since many things marketed as homeopathic are really no such thing, they are simply herbal remedies given a different name. It would only be a very small step to go from putting herbs in your water to putting drugs in.
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Very true. Terrifying either way.

Athon
 
athon said:
Sorry, I should have extrapolated what I was saying by mentioning that there is no regulatory system that checks this.
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In the UK, this sort of thing is regulated by the MHRA. It would count as illegally selling unlicenced medicines.
 
I know naturopathy is covered by the Therapeutic Goods Act in Australia, which means it's not technically medication. However I'm not sure what actions could be taken against them if such a thing was found. I know a study was made on Chinese medicines in Sydney some time back, which found steroids in dried mushrooms, but I don't recall there being any prosecution (or rather, I'd imagine there well could have been, but I don't know under which law).

Athon
 
Mojo said:
In the UK, this sort of thing is regulated by the MHRA. It would count as illegally selling unlicenced medicines.
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My confidence in this is somewhat limited as the same body allows homeopathetic remedies to make medical claims with no evidence.
 
Considering that benzodiazepines can be found naturally in the plant kingdom it is reasonable to say it can be in the natural products. It does not mean they repackaged a pharmaceutical or putting drugs in their products. Many of your 'drugs' came from plant sources, so its safe to say these active ingredients will be present especially if thats what the product was being used for.
 
WitchyWoman said:
Considering that benzodiazepines can be found naturally in the plant kingdom it is reasonable to say it can be in the natural products. It does not mean they repackaged a pharmaceutical or putting drugs in their products. Many of your 'drugs' came from plant sources, so its safe to say these active ingredients will be present especially if thats what the product was being used for.
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Benzodiazepines can be found in some natural products. This particular one, however, is not a naturally-occurring one. It's chlorinated, and very few natural products contain organochlorines.

When drug companies take drugs from plant sources, they isolate the compounds that are physiologically active. Then they check to see how well it works, what dosages are required, what side effects are present, etc.

When this is done, they look at the chemical structure of the compounds, and make a list of other compounds that are structurally similar- replacing a methyl group with an ethyl group, changing a carboxylic acid into an amine, acetylating a hydroxyl group, putting a chlorine where there was originally a hydrogen, that sort of thing.

Then they test all of these derivatives. Some of them will turn out to be better than the original. Many of them will turn out to be worse. Some of them turn out to be effective against a completely different disease.

But none of these derivatives will be found in the original plant matter. So if a "herbal remedy" pill contains one of these synthetic derivatives, then you know it's been spiked.

If your willow bark tea contains ASA in addition to the complex tannin salicylate naturally found in willow, it didn't get there naturally.

If your "100% Natural Milk of Poppy Sweet-Dreams(tm)" tablet contains heroin, it wasn't put there by the poppy.
 
Thank you for that Madalch. your explanation was awesome and informative. I actually didn't get it until your willow example. Your post was refreshing.
 
Madalch said:
When this is done, they look at the chemical structure of the compounds, and make a list of other compounds that are structurally similar- replacing a methyl group with an ethyl group, changing a carboxylic acid into an amine, acetylating a hydroxyl group, putting a chlorine where there was originally a hydrogen, that sort of thing.
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Just to add a bit, the exact same method is used to produce designer recreational drugs. A particular compound is made illegal, so someone produces a version with enough difference that it's not banned. If it still works, it gets sold on the street. If not, it's on to the next version.
 
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