Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[scissorhands]

Are you experienced in this scissorhands? I have already mentioned that I was very surprised to find that there were only 9 finger prints in Knox's own room and none that were useable: only one of her finger prints which was identifiable in the whole house. Is that what you would have expected? And if it was why is dna different? Can you explain?

Not experienced at all , I simply wanted to point out that the lack of Sollicetos DNA in the rest of the apartment seems as equally unusual as the fact it was found in two isolated places.
Trying to argue that it is significant, isnt a logical argument given his acquaintance with AK and with the property.
Not that you were doing that, I was responding to another poster.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Exactly

I was under the impression that Sollecito had visited his girlfriends apartment previously, and certainly on the day of the discovery of the victim.
Yet none of his DNA was found in the apartment apart from that on the bra clasp of Kercher and a cigarette butt?
He must have been a ghost to leave such little evidence.
Holding a murder victim down during a life and death struggle, while leaving so little evidence is amazing.

Scissorhands,

I agree. It is only slightly less amazing than what Nifong asserted in the DL case: http://www.lewrockwell.com/anderson/anderson212.html

Chris

 

[Chris_Halkides]

my apologies to BobTheDonkey

BobTheDonkey,

I accidently wrote your name incorrectly in a previous post. I apologize. I should have reread what I had written and corrected that mistake.

Chris

 

[stilicho]

Don't forget that Knox has pulled a "rape" prank on a friend/roommate from college before, so the Prosecution timeline really wasn't that far out of character.

That was a blog comment and was never brought up at the trial. The UW party and the $269 fine was, though. The people at PMF contacted the person who wrote the comment and they could not provide solid evidence that it happened.

 

[NewtonTrino]

As I just posted, Knox has pulled a "rape" prank on a friend/roommate in the past (can't recall off hand which it was, just recall that it was someone she knew). While I'm all about pranking friends, this kind of "prank" is a bit too extreme...

Actually I would love some more details on this. It's still circumstantial but it substantially helps when generating a theory of what did happen. If Amanda has previously "rape pranked" people that's a fairly interesting piece of evidence.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Hello Everyone,

The petition from the DNA forensic experts asked for the release of the .fst files, which had not been done as of the writing of the letter. It appears that their asking for these files is not an unreasonable thing to do . This site says, “Copies of all data files used and created in the course of performing tests and analyzing data in this
case, including .fsa files, if applicable. These files should include all data necessary to
independently reanalyze the raw data.”

Chris

Hello Halides1. You mean these experts voiced a professional opinion without being in possession of the data? I thought scientists did things the other way around

 

[Fiona]

Not experienced at all , I simply wanted to point out that the lack of Sollicetos DNA in the rest of the apartment seems as equally unusual as the fact it was found in two isolated places.

The point I was trying to make, Scissorhands, is that one thing I learned from the fingerprint evidence is that my assumptions about what is and what is not normal are not correct.

I had thought that fingerprints were to be expected in abundance in a person's own home. That is wrong per the evidence in this case and it has given me a lot of pause. My presumption was unwarranted and I had not thought to question it

In this thread many people have said that DNA is all over the place from skin cells, hair cells, mucous etc. But I have not seen anyone actually back that up. It was also my assumption just as the fingerprints were: but if the fingerprints don't work like that then I do not know if DNA does: and if it does why it is different.

I am looking for an explanation about that.

 

[Fiona]

We have previously agreed that the dusty glove is one possible route of contamination.

Who agreed that ?

 

[piktor]

If the glove stinks

Thus, nine independent forensic experts made it clear in their text that no other DNA from RS was found, and yet they come to the opposite conclusion as you and BobTheGoat based on the same data. That is good enough for me.

Remember the prosecution has to convince the jury in Perugia, not 9 scientists out there dispensing unsolicited scientific opinions.

I have my reservations but it is the mass of small ''coincidences'' that has me on the side of the prosecution.

If the defense brings a better case on appeal, great, the two youngsters will go free.

Again, why has the defense been unable to defeat the prosecution's weak case time after time after time?

 

[Fulcanelli]

[quote="Halides1]In response to a question from Fiona, We know from the appropriate video that there was also dust on the glove of the person who collected the clasp, which seems to run counter to the spirit of the DNA guidelines to which I have linked previously.[/quote]

Or, it was on the clasp and came off onto the glove.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

I was under the impression that Sollecito had visited his girlfriends apartment previously, and certainly on the day of the discovery of the victim.
Yet none of his DNA was found in the apartment apart from that on the bra clasp of Kercher and a cigarette butt?
He must have been a ghost to leave such little evidence.
Holding a murder victim down during a life and death struggle, while leaving so little evidence is amazing.

There was also an extensive cleanup. My understanding is that Guede's DNA was the only DNA (other than Kercher's) found in the room. (I may be wrong, I'll see if I can find a source for that).

In fact, there was no DNA evidence on Kercher's body except for Guede's DNA inside the body where it couldn't be found.

That, my friends, is a damned extensive cleaning.

 

[stilicho]

Hi Kestrel. Well, the wounds were inflicted with two different knives and an eye witness put knives in the hands of Amanda and Raffaele (two knives) just before the murder.

This is, of course, Kokomani. I noticed the Seattle media portayals of him as unreliable. He has his own problems with alcohol and drugs.

Kokomani is not the best witness in the world and may have even been lying. My impression about the witnesses is that, together, they help the prosecution's case even if, individually, their testimonies don't seem like much.

One of the best prosecution witnesses, Curatalo, placed both Knox and Sollecito at the plaza both before and after the murder. He had a good sense of time, too, unlike Kokomani.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Not experienced at all , I simply wanted to point out that the lack of Sollicetos DNA in the rest of the apartment seems as equally unusual as the fact it was found in two isolated places.
Trying to argue that it is significant, isnt a logical argument given his acquaintance with AK and with the property.
Not that you were doing that, I was responding to another poster.

That, actually, is exactly the point I'm making.

If Sollecito's DNA is as abundant as would be required to easily contaminate the clasp, why is it so obviously missing from the entire house?

This is evidence of an extreme cleanup. And being as the clasp was initially under the body, it's easy to see how it would have been missed during the cleanup.

If there is remarkably no evidence of Sollecito ever having been in the house (besides a cigarette butt that is not in dispute and eye-witnesses), then how did the contamination happen - and why was nothing else contaminated?

 

[BobTheDonkey]

This is, of course, Kokomani. I noticed the Seattle media portayals of him as unreliable. He has his own problems with alcohol and drugs.

Kokomani is not the best witness in the world and may have even been lying. My impression about the witnesses is that, together, they help the prosecution's case even if, individually, their testimonies don't seem like much.

One of the best prosecution witnesses, Curatalo, placed both Knox and Sollecito at the plaza both before and after the murder. He had a good sense of time, too, unlike Kokomani.

The key to Kokomani's testimony is that regardless of his sense of time, given what he saw, it was able to correlate (and be correlated by) other testimonies. That's what makes it valid.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Without knowing the identities of the three others whose DNA is on the clasp, I would ask how they could be excluded as possible suspects.

What three others? There were 5 profiles on the clasp. The first was Meredith's, the second was Raffaele's, the third was Amanda's and the other two was that of two unidentified females which couldn't be fully read due to their being so feint and were fractured. The two females were probably that of Filomena and Laura. Understandable since the girls shared washing and drying facilities (as well as simply living together). Raffaele's sample could only have occurred via direct and vigorous first party contact, not third party transference, since his sample was so large (second only in volume to Meredith's) being 1.4 nanograms. To put that into perspective, Raffaele's own DNA expert conceeded on the stand that he can extract a profile without amplification with as little as 50 picograms. Raffaele's sample equated to 1400 picograms.

 

[Fiona]

This is evidence of an extreme cleanup.

Is it? That is what I would have assumed but it is what I am now trying to clarify. Do you have any information about how this works, BobTheDonkey?

 

[stilicho]

Remember the prosecution has to convince the jury in Perugia, not 9 scientists out there dispensing unsolicited scientific opinions.

This was part of my question to those who originally brought these "experts" up. My question was, and remains, what special qualifications or evidence do they have that Sollecito's own expert didn't have or didn't use? If anything, these nine experts should be contacting RS's defence team rather than writing open letters to strangers on the internet.

Again, why has the defense been unable to defeat the prosecution's weak case time after time after time?

One obvious reason is that they have been unable to construct a defensible alternate scenario. They have to account for AK admitting to being at the murder scene, RS being proved to have been lying about being on his computer at the time of the murder, a witness placing them at the plaza, the DNA evidence, the footprint evidence, the lack of AK's prints even in her own room, her lamp in Meredith's room, the lies about calling the carabinieri, the evidence of a cleanup at the cottage, the glass on top of the ransacked clothes, and that's just for starters.

The evidence isn't just strong; it's irrefutable.

 

[Fulcanelli]

This is, of course, Kokomani. I noticed the Seattle media portayals of him as unreliable. He has his own problems with alcohol and drugs.

Kokomani is not the best witness in the world and may have even been lying. My impression about the witnesses is that, together, they help the prosecution's case even if, individually, their testimonies don't seem like much.

One of the best prosecution witnesses, Curatalo, placed both Knox and Sollecito at the plaza both before and after the murder. He had a good sense of time, too, unlike Kokomani.

Only Kokomani can't be so easily dismissed. This is for four reasons:

1) His mobile phone puts him at the location of the cottage at the time he said he was there
2) He reported the broken down car in his statement. There was indeed a broken down car where he said it was, when he said it was. This information had been held back by the police and not released to the press.
3) Another witness (the mechanic who arrived to fix the car) testified he saw a car in the entranceway to the cottage drive.
4) Kokomani that night after the event met up with his Albanian friends and told them what he'd seen, before the murder was known to anyone.

It is also worth noting Kokomani had nothing to gain by coming to police and they didn't even know about him until he came forward, just the opposite, since 'omerta' was the culture among his Albanian culture. Indeed, his Albanian friends instructed him to forget what he'd seen and keep his mouth shut.

 

[Fiona]

What three others? There were 5 profiles on the clasp. The first was Meredith's, the second was Raffaele's, the third was Amanda's and the other two was that of two unidentified females which couldn't be fully read due to their being so feint and were fractured. The two females were probably that of Filomena and Laura. Understandable since the girls shared washing and drying facilities (as well as simply living together). Raffaele's sample could only have occurred via direct and vigorous first party contact, not third party transference, since his sample was so large (second only in volume to Meredith's) being 1.4 nanograms. To put that into perspective, Raffaele's own DNA expert conceeded on the stand that he can extract a profile without amplification with as little as 50 picograms. Raffaele's sample equated to 1400 picograms.

Halides1 is relying on one disgraceful site for his information, so far as I can tell. No one who was sincerely interested in this case would do that.

 

[scissorhands]

The point I was trying to make, Scissorhands, is that one thing I learned from the fingerprint evidence is that my assumptions about what is and what is not normal are not correct.

I had thought that fingerprints were to be expected in abundance in a person's own home. That is wrong per the evidence in this case and it has given me a lot of pause. My presumption was unwarranted and I had not thought to question it

In this thread many people have said that DNA is all over the place from skin cells, hair cells, mucous etc. But I have not seen anyone actually back that up. It was also my assumption just as the fingerprints were: but if the fingerprints don't work like that then I do not know if DNA does: and if it does why it is different.

I am looking for an explanation about that.

Fingerprints are in abundance in someones home, their usefulness in criminal investigations depends on the surface they are imprinted on.
Certain surfaces produce better results, others just a smudge.

I think the 9/11 hijackers were partly identified by DNA on their toothbrushes in hotel rooms?
If Sollecito had spent any time at that apartment,and it is known he did, there would be a background noise of Sollecito DNA from various sources.
The fact that this is apparently missing, apart from on two items, can only mean that the investigators didnt check for it.
This makes the argument that it was only found on the bra clasp and a fag butt as a claim for his participation in the murder, a bit worrying.