Obama and the Gay Military...

[BobTheDonkey]

I'm guessing he is ex-chAir force.

Easy there killer.

Not all of us Ex-chAir force guys are like Billy over there...

 

[BobTheDonkey]

And you cannot write correctly. I'm guessing Navy.

No way. He'd never have joined the Navy - too much time at sea with all those "gay" sailors?

Although...perhaps you're on to something...could certainly explain his position...

 

[ponderingturtle]

Truman? President Truman? THe Truman who was the head of the CIA? Truman Capotee (sp?).

Wow, how did Truman Capote intergrate the military?

Clearly I have not advised anyone since I do not know what you mean.

Given the institutional bigotry of the military why wasn't intergrating the armed forces a bad idea? There were clearly many soldiers who did not want to serve with blacks, so why force them to?

Are you saying I am a bigot? Dude, you are not making any sense. Exactly why I am a bigot? Is that just the default slot you put someone in who you think is anti-gay without bothering to understand where he is coming from?

It follows from a lot of your positions. You also have a very very low opinion of service personel.

The Navy Covers Up Deaths that are first reported as suicide and friendly fire. This is a fact. Do you need me to pull up the examples?

What are you even talking about here?

I have been accused of having a low opinion of humanity and/or military servicemen. I do not know who you think we are, but human beings are animals. Peel back the thin veneer that we use to convince each other of our intelligence and there lies the raging ape that we all are: sexist, angry and desperate and hopeless.

Viewing everyone as bigoted rapists would seem to then be a reflection of your own behavior then.

Look at the news today. The world's number one golfer with a squeaky clean image has been exposed for being what none of us would have imagined that he is.

See, more evidence why blacks should have been kept in their own units and intergration was a bad idea. Either that or we are supposted to be suprised that an incredibly rich sports star sleeps with several women, and it has nothing to do with the thread at all.

No one, it seems, is taught the concept of the ying and the yang. What appears cold and heartless on the outside is good at its core and what appears good on the outside is heartless at its core.

So rape and bigotry are now good?

The same at times is with American Culture. Just google L. Ron's son Quinton Hubbard and his death. It was ruled a suicide despite all the evidence that said it was not. I believe the same fate often befalls many openly gay men in the US military -- or it is not unreasonable to believe so.

http://en.allexperts.com/e/q/qu/quentin_hubbard.htm

[qimg]http://www.whyaretheydead.info/Quentin_Hubbard_22/quentin.jpg[/qimg]

It has been shown that the military in the USA covers up deaths that occur in suspicious circumstances.

So the military is run by scientologists now? That kind of refutes you position that it is vital to cater to christian bigotry then.

 

[ponderingturtle]

You Brits might think you have nothing to loose if I am wrong.

There is no way to know if it will work unless we give it a try.

But Americans have too much to loose if it is a catastrophic failure.
[/B]

Again, intergrating the military was a bad decision. Clearly if Bill was in charge we would still have all black units.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Oh for crying out loud, Bill, if you're going to troll at least try not to be obvious about it. Let me spell this out for you: some religious groups will have differing attitudes to military service. It is therefore ridiculous to assume that the same percentages of religious people will exist in the armed forces as do in society at large.

Probably fewer Amish and Quakers for one.

 

[Ryokan]

They break each country down by religions and sects.

Common sense suggest that the same percentages would enlist.

Besides, I know and remember the attitudes people have in the military.

You think the Israeli military has 16% Muslims?

 

[GreyICE]

Easy there killer.

Not all of us Ex-chAir force guys are like Billy over there...

Heh, I know

Sometimes the joke is just sitting there

 

[cwalner]

Again, intergrating the military was a bad decision. Clearly if Bill was in charge we would still have all black units.

I think I figured out Bill's service record. He was a general in the Army during our brief conflict with the Canadian agressors as recorded in the documentary film, South Park: Bigger, Longer, and Uncut.

 

[Sledge]

You think the Israeli military has 16% Muslims?

Yes, that would be his argument. And I for one am looking forward to Bill's next post where he tells us that he doesn't think that at all and that we should read his posts properly.

 

[Phrost]

How about hearing from people who are currently in the US Military on the subject, not someone who may or may not have served 20 years ago.

Like me. And I don't care what people do in the privacy of their bedrooms.

 

[Aitch]

You know, considering I only started this thread because no-one else had started one on the subject, it's lasted quite well, hasn't it?

Attracted some, how can I put this, 'interesting' people, too...

 

[Bill Thompson]

Again, intergrating the military was a bad decision. Clearly if Bill was in charge we would still have all black units.

Strawman units too. You would fit in.
There are no religious nut groups that are out to kill someone just because of the color of their skin or their gender. Apart from the Methodists and maybe some small groups, every religious group in the USA is intollerant towards homosexuals.

people start accusing me of this crazy racist bull and then after a while some new guy picks up on it as if I really true.

The amusing thing is that some white hate groups would accuse me and my woman as being "non-white".

Your "clear" assumptions are not worth anything.

You probably think I am a white guy. You have only your imagination as your window to reality.

 

[Bill Thompson]

Ok Bill, please answer my simple question:

What branch of the US Military did you serve in?

Since you are such a kind and thoughtul person (cough-cough):

The Navy.
'83-'86
want a copy of my DD 214?
What a copy of some other records?
How about my expeditionary service ribbon and my letter from the Admiral of the Fleet. I actually think I scanned that in years ago when I was putting together a list of recomendations for work.

Give NAS Oceana Virgina a call and ask for VA-75 and see how you can pull up my records. I was an I.S. there with that squadron which was attached to the USS JFK. I also worked at the Pentagon while in the reserves in 88 or 89. I think they keep records in Lexington KY too.

IS's work in an office and see and hear the legal stuff that happens that clerical people and officers see and hear. I speak from experience.

People tend to believe things just becuause they feel it is the right thing to belive in. Well, there is the right thing to believe in and then there is reality.

 

[MikeMangum]

Not religious, but an example of something similar.

The UK population has approx 10.6% who are seen as being ethnic. Despite a huge increase since 1997 to 2006 the UK forces had about a 5.5% ethnic make up.

I know the word ethnic is often used this way, but you realise that everyone is "ethnic", right? Everyone has an ethnicity.

 

[The Fallen Serpent]

Strawman units too. You would fit in.
There are no religious nut groups that are out to kill someone just because of the color of their skin or their gender.

Certainly no religious based white supremacist groups have promoted murder of dark skinned people in the name of RAHOWA.[/sarcasm]

Apart from the Methodists and maybe some small groups, every religious group in the USA is intollerant towards homosexuals.

What constitutes a small religious group? Mainline Protestant Christians (which include Methodists and Anglicans) outnumber Baptist Christians and greatly outnumber Evangelical Christians. They are generally in support of equal treament of homosexuals though it is leading to new schisms in the specific denominations. The only Christian group larger than Mainline Protestant in the US is Catholic. Many of the specific denominations that are in favor of equal treatment of homosexuals outnumber the entire congregation of Judaism. Is all of Judaism a small religious group? Quite a few of the religious organizations that are against homosexuality or just homosexual acts are also against masturbation. Should people that are publically admitted or discovered masturbators be prevented from serving? What about atheists? Idolators?

 

[Bill Thompson]

DADT is intended to give homosexuals more equal rights in the military, not take them away. Thinking it works -- meaning that believing it give liberty to gays in the American military culture and environment -- does not make someone a bigot or a homophobe or any other narrow minded insults that you hurl at me or IM me.

Your goal is to hurt me personally for reasons I do not understand.

All I can say is that I think your ideology blinds you.

 

[Alan]

Would say "shut up" before the person got to say the gender of a partner if you knew they were going to, and if you'd want them to be discharged if they said it? Regardless of the sex of their partner.

 

[The Fallen Serpent]

Personally I am just going to ignore the personal attacks and focus on the specific claims as I did above. Perhaps using sarcasm was not the best way to start that off.

I know that DADT was intended as a compromise to increase acceptance of homosexuals in the military. I understand that in terms of the law as written that is what it did. As far as I can tell it has led to a new format for discrimination against homosexuals and less tolerance despite the compromised intention. It appears to have hurt the ability of dismissed members to sue for reinstatement on the basis of discrimination as the policy has become a congressionally passed Federal law instead of merely policy from various other sources.

I know that merely repealling DADT (it was originally Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Don't Pursue but that last bit was abandoned quite quickly in practice) would effictively reinstate the outright ban, but I think we can take a careful measured approach and also edit the UMCJ at the same time.

Just my take on it.

 

[MikeMangum]

Certainly no religious based white supremacist groups have promoted murder of dark skinned people in the name of RAHOWA.[/sarcasm]

I'm guessing you didn't thoroughly read the link you posted.

Racial Holy War...is what the white separatist religion known as Creativity, perceives as an ongoing conflict, in which white people are united in a holy war against Jews and other non-whites.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creativity_Movement

The Creativity Movement (formerly known as the World Church Of The Creator), is a white separatist organization that advocates the whites-only religion, Creativity.[1] It was also a descriptive phrase used by Ben Klassen, that included all adherents of the religion. The use of the term creator does not refer to a deity, but rather to themselves (white people).[2] Despite the former use of the word Church in its name, the movement is atheistic.

 

[Bill Thompson]

Should people that are publically admitted or discovered masturbators be prevented from serving? What about atheists? Idolators?

As strange as it may sound, whatever the Generals decide is pretty much law. Since I am not a mind reader, I cannot answer those questions.

I do not live in a dream world that focuses on what should be and what ought to be. In a perfect world of fairness and universal human rights, there would be no need for a military at all. And then this whole discussion would not be happening.