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Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

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I seem to recall that Sollecito said something about Kercher coming to his house and cutting herself. Is that correct, and was it in response to being told that Kercher's DNA had been found on the knife?
 
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You misapprehend the questioning. If an attorney asks "does everyone think they can be fair," gets 50 people nodding, and then quits, he or she has not done her job in voir dire.

You question about attitudes, you question about the press reports the people have been exposed to and their attitudes about different matters so that the attorney gets a better idea of whether the person can truly be fair, or not. Most jurors want to be fair and want to be honest at the same time. While they think they can be fair, they will be willing to say whether certain facts, or circumstances, or anything else about the case makes them uneasy, or worried about their own ability to be fair. Don't dismiss voir dire questioning of the jury panel. It is possibly the most important part of the trial; it is certainly one of the best ways to obtain the fairest jury possible in the common law system.

Fair enough. I certainly agree that jurors want to be fair and usually succeed and I hope that was clear in my post. And I am sure the attorneys are very skilled in what they do: but questioning about "attitudes" is a dicey business in any field. I tend to think we are better at it than we think:but most people are aware of the limits of this and if bias is truly unconscious it is not necessarily going to show.

In a common law system with few sub judice rules it is probably necessary: and if you tell me it is effective I accept that. My purpose was really to address what we are aiming to do and to show that the american way is not the only way: nor is it the most common way. I do not think it is established as a better way, either. If I came across as casually critical that was not my intent: but I was answering what appeared to me to an unquestioned assumption that these particular provisions are essential to a fair trial: they are not.

Juries are not sequested in most cases; they are trusted to be "grown up."

I am aware of that because Quadraginta explained it: and I said so.

And after 14 years of trial work, I am more impressed today with juries -- and their efforts to follow the courts' instructions -- than when I began as an attorney.

Again I agreed with this in my previous post: and I think it is true anywhere there is a developed legal system: probably in "undeveloped" ones as well

And again, I think you emphasize the wrong elements. Sequestering is used, generally, only for high-profile cases where the court expects inflammatory press or where information that would be considered unreliable and strongly emotional might reach the news. In those situations, it is considered safer to try and keep the jury from having to work at keeping their outside knowledge from influencing their decision.

Here we will have to differ, I am afraid. My point in this paragraph was perhaps not well expressed: I was attempting to separate two things which you seem to be treating as one. But it is no great matter because my wider point does not hang on it

I cannot say whether this aspect of the system is as good, better, or worse without a lot more study. I will not, however, sign on to a statement that "more sources of information are a good thing" in general. That depends entirely on the reliability of the information and the ability of the accused to answer back.

Again, I think you have misunderstood my point. What Iwas trying to get across is that there are two ways of looking at this. I was really asking for those who have not considered this before to think about what underlies the rules we make. Many people are very wedded to the idea of freedom of information and will argue that they can certainly sift and weigh what they have access to. Some insist that this is very important and defend freedom of the press vociferously for at least two reasons: the danger of information being restricted systematically by an authority; and the lack of evidence that the harm done by free information of whatever quality outweighs its value. But as you demonstrate in your post, in you country and in mine we do not apply that reasoning to the criminal justice system. That is why the whole
of the bit you quote is important and not just the part you rendered. I said
In other areas of life we tend to think that more sources of information are a good thing: why not here? It is not obvious to me: and of course it preserves the freedom of the press more than the uk system does.
. As you see it is a question. It is followed by my honest statement that it is not obvious to me and then by one of its arguable benefits over the uk system. I get the impression you feel I took a strong position in favour of the Italian system. I did not. I have pointed out that all three systems have different ways of meeting a problem inherent in criminal justice. I stated more than once that none of them is perfect: but I was trying to show that they are all reasonable and this was in a context where I perceived, perhaps wrongly, that some posters have taken it for granted that the one they are familiar with is self evidently superior.


Information is not excluded from evidence in the US or UK on a whim;

I did not say or imply that it was. Again I am getting the feeling that I have put you on the defensive or othewise offended you and it seems I must have expressed myself worse than usual. But I have read my post again and I don't see how.

there is an effort to see that the jury gets access to all relevant and material information, but not information that is considered unreliable or which has no bearing on the issue of guilt or innocence. For example: hearsay statements are excluded because there is no effective way for the jury to evaluate what some person not before them said and how they said it -- no way for the jury to accurately judge the credibility of a speaker not before them. But many exceptions exist in situations where the statement is one expected to be "generally" reliable -- medical records, business records, etc. So before I can sign on to more information is superior, I need to know a *lot* about where the line is drawn and what 'extra' information we're talking about.

It is still the case that someone or some body makes the decision about what to exclude. There are principles underlying those decisions and I have in no way dismissed them. The fact remains that it is open to some of the problems ARubberChickenWithAPulley identified. I understand that much of this rests on the importance of being able to see and evaluate the person giving evidence: but we both know that that is not really a very good way of judging things. It is arguably the best we have, but it is still a judgement of character and credibility: and a judgement made when the person judged and the person judging are both an unusual situation. If you think everyone is happy about that take a look at the rape threads sometime :)

I am not persuaded it is essential to getting good outcomes, though I think it is valuable for other reasons than those you cite. I think it is perfectly possible that a very full ranging discussion which includes those elements we think so dangerous would be at least as effective: because that is how we are used to working in our daily lives. But this is a very broad brush: the juror is guided in all three systems. The mechanism is different and control of the information is balanced differently. Again my purpose was to show that and to demonstrate that those differences are not wicked and they are not inherently inferior.
 
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What kind of evidence would you expect?

Oh, you know......evidence that she was held in isolation without food or drink or rest; evidence of very protracted questioning; evidence of physical abuse; evidence that she regretted accusing an innocent man in the form of telling someone official she had done it once she was out of hands of her brutal interrogators. Anything like that would do, really. :)
 
I still can't quite see where Knox admitted that she lied about being hit by police or interrogated at length.

When she was in court in June this year she testified to this. The Guardian reports thus:

Amanda Knox, the woman accused of murdering British exchange student Meredith Kercher, told an Italian court she was hit by police and forced to make false statements *during a late night interrogation.

Knox, 21, who is on trial alongside her former Italian boyfriend, Raffaele *Sollecito, 25, said she had falsely accused a local bar owner over the *murder because she was put under *pressure by police.

"The police called me a stupid liar who was trying to protect someone," she told the court in English. "I was very scared, the police were treating me badly and I didn't know why." Asked if she had been hit during her interrogation, she showed how she had been cuffed on the back on the head twice by a police officer. Perugia police have denied mistreating her.

Dressed in a white shirt and pale *trousers for her first cross-examination, Knox said she had named Patrick Lumumba "under the amount of pressure of everyone yelling at me and telling me they would put me in prison for protecting someone".

Police had seized on a text message containing the English phrase, "See you later" Knox sent on the day of the murder to Lumumba, who was employing her as a bar worker. "They [the police] put the *telephone in front of my face, told me to look at the message and said 'you were going to meet someone'," said Knox.

She said an interpreter at the interrogation suggested she was suffering from memory loss due to trauma. "In my *confusion I started to imagine I was traumatised as they said," she said.

Asked if she regretted accusing Lumumba, released from custody when a drinker at his bar gave him an alibi, Knox said: "Was I unhappy? Certainly, mamma mia." Knox was being questioned by Carlo Pacelli, a lawyer representing Lumumba, who is suing Knox in a civil trial for *defamation which is running concurrently with the murder trial.

What it sounds like is that police accused her of acting in concert with Lumumba, pressurised her, assaulted her and eventually got her to a state where she wasn't sure what was real and what was imaginary any more. As a result she gave them a confused and completely incorrect story which they then had to follow up (wasting their own time in the process). It sound suspiciously to me like the (no doubt) accidental coercion led to the creation of a false memory - which is apparently quite possible in pressurised police interrogations of this kind.
 
I get the impression you feel I took a strong position in favour of the Italian system. I did not. I have pointed out that all three systems have different ways of meeting a problem inherent in criminal justice. I stated more than once that none of them is perfect: but I was trying to show that they are all reasonable and this was in a context where I perceived, perhaps wrongly, that some posters have taken it for granted that the one they are familiar with is self evidently superior.

* * *

I did not say or imply that it was. Again I am getting the feeling that I have put you on the defensive or othewise offended you and it seems I must have expressed myself worse than usual. But I have read my post again and I don't see how.

Just the vagaries of textual communication -- I was a bit hurried when I wrote mine and had a tiny concern it would come across as too terse, but am at work and did not have the chance to go back and do much more with it.

I didn't take your message as any type of criticism of the US or UK system; sorry if it sounded that way. I started with an explanation of my concern and ended up starting a 1 year evidence lecture or something. Anyway, I'm sorry I didn't put my thoughts across as cogently as I had intended.



It is still the case that someone or some body makes the decision about what to exclude. There are principles underlying those decisions and I have in no way dismissed them. The fact remains that it is open to some of the problems ARubberChickenWithAPulley identified. I understand that much of this rests on the importance of being able to see and evaluate the person giving evidence: but we both know that that is not really a very good way of judging things. It is arguably the best we have, but it is still a judgement of character and credibility: and a judgement made when the person judged and the person judging are both an unusual situation.

I tend to agree with your cautionary statement here, but removing the ability for the jury to evaluate the person making the statements gives them even less information to make a judgement on credibility. If listening to testimony is a poor way to make decisions, I have to think it is even worse to have the same information relayed to you, but minus the chance to see them. Moreover, I see it as more an issue of fairness -- the ability to ask questions of a witness and make sure that what they really mean and intend is what is being relayed to the jury. Without that kind of assurance regarding the authenticity of testimony, you run a real risk that essential details or shades of meaning will be lost, changed, or omitted.

But as I indicated, I can't say the Italian system as a whole is any better or worse without a lot more study. I do think the voir dire of the jury panel is extremely useful; I would rather see it in place than not.
 
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I seem to recall that Sollecito said something about Kercher coming to his house and cutting herself. Is that correct, and was it in response to being told that Kercher's DNA had been found on the knife?
That's my understanding, too. It just sounds like a whack-a-mole defense strategy to me: say whatever you have to in order to explain whatever information comes to light, regardless of its coherence or consistency.

-Mike
 
Hello Solnishko, and welcome from me as well. :)



Well that is no longer certain. I have just learned that Sollecito's forensic expert, Pascali I think, claims that knox's dna was also on the victim's bra. I have not yet found the source but it is discussed on PKM. I am not so good at navigating that site as Stilicho is, so it will take me some time to track it down if I succeed at all. And as it is 3 am it is not likely to be tonight.

I can't post links yet, but here's a clip from a Guardian article from October 27, 2008, regarding the DNA on the bra clasp:

Francesco Vinci, a forensic expert hired by Sollecito's legal team, said the DNA of all three suspects and two other unidentified people might be on the bra.

Sollecito's lawyers say this proves their theory that the clasp was contaminated with outside DNA after police mistakenly left it on the floor of Kercher's bedroom for weeks before testing it. "There is a mix of DNA due to contamination and it is not usable as proof," said Sollecito's lawyer, Giulia Bongiorno, before entering court today.

I've also seen articles that state that it was Kercher, Sollecito and three unidentified people as well. The problem with news stories is that they're often not 100% accurate, if the prosecution doesn't want to tip their hand on that particular aspect. And, the fact that it was sitting there for six weeks leaves a lot to question.



They can't repeat the test because the sample was very small. That is not in dispute. The fact of the dna was attested by Dr Stefanoni and it was confirmed by a forensic expert acting for the victim's family. So far as I am aware the defence did not argue that: Sollecito said the dna came from the victim when she was cooking with them at his home. There is no evidence at all she ever visited his home. Sollecito had only known Knox for a few weeks (and he says he only became close to her on 24th September - though he might have changed that again). The girls were not close and did not socialise together: nor do any of Kerchner's friends remember any mention of a visit to his home.

It's also been confirmed that Kercher's DNA on the knife was not from blood. From ABC News International on May 22, 2009:

Stefanoni testified today that Knox's DNA was found on the handle of the kitchen knife the prosecution believes is the murder weapon. This knife was found in Sollecito's house. She said Kercher's DNA was on the blade. Stefanoni said, however, that the DNA in these samples was not from blood.

Well perhaps: but the knife is not the only factor: there are 47 separate wounds and they are scattered all over her body in such a way as to convince the various judges and the two prosecutors that there was more than one assailant. There are defence wounds which show she fought hard. If the killer put his knife down to get another from somewhere it is hard to see why or how while his victim was fighting: and harder yet to see why he would if she was already passed out and not resting.

But, the million dollar question here is: Why is there only Guede's DNA on Kercher's body? If Sollecito and Knox were so heavily involved in the crime, their DNA would be everywhere in that bedroom. All over the bed, all over the floor, all over the victim. The only DNA they've found is Guede's. That strikes me as incredibly odd that Sollecito and Knox managed to clean away their own DNA, but not that of Guede. In fact, impossible. We shed DNA and cellular materials heavily throughout normal activity. During a crime like this, there will be sweat, blood, saliva, mucous, skin and hair shed, which will get all over the place. Why is it not there?


Again, perhaps. The forensic scientists do not agree with you, but that is the question and I am not competent to judge. Nonetheless you still have to account for the fact that the victim's blood is there: that there is a footprint which appears to match Sollecito's. That this footprint is clearly visible, as is a long streak of blood and other smaller blood spots on the toilet and the bidet and the tap and the light switch. Yet this woman, who returned to her home to find the door open but no one home, proceeds to have a shower. I find that rather odd. Maybe it is just me.

Guede brought the victim's DNA in there. It doesn't have to mean that Knox and Sollecito are responsible for it and I'm not convinced that the footprint is Sollecito's, as he has a hammer toe which wouldn't leave a print, as it isn't able to touch the ground at all.

The fact that the door was open doesn't strike me as odd. I come home to an open door occasionally, as the latch on the front door is faulty and doesn't latch all the way, unless it's slammed shut. Blood all over the bathroom... these are young women living there. Women have periods that can make a mess. I cut my hand up on Thanksgiving and, rather than clean up the bloody mess, I dealt with the cuts on my hand and, yes, there were blood smears all over the bathroom and kitchen sinks. If I'd needed medical attention, I wouldn't have cleaned up first. If there were huge pools of blood... yeah, that would make me wonder why she took a shower, rather than freak out. But smears and drops? Not so much. It wasn't a blood bath in there.



It is not admitted that they did hard drugs: it is admitted that they smoked cannabis. There has been some evidence that Sollecito may have taken LSD as a younger man: but at no point has it been suggested that Knox took hard drugs. Withdrawal is not a possibility.

The crime happened on November 1st: Sollecito was asked to attend the police station as a witness on November 5th and Knox voluntarily accompanied him. She did not wish to leave and therefore they interviewed her too. They were not addicts and they knew they were going to be interviewed: if they were high they were behaving very strangely indeed: and despite all that has been said about inappropriate behaviour this has never been suggested: not by them and not by the police. [/quote]

Pot does enough to whack people out. I'm not implying that they were high when they were interviewed, but they admitted to being stoned that night and the possibly don't remember exactly what they were doing or where they were. Having that kind of a blackout, on the night that someone was murdered... yeah, that'd freak me out.



They were not interrogated for an extended length of time without food or sleep. Sollecito never claimed that, and Knox admitted that she lied about it. At the outset they were witnesses and they were free to leave at any time. I do not know what time the interview began: but the couple went to the police station about 10 pm ( I don't know why it was so late but I think they do that sort of thing in Spain as well). Knox's interview was terminated at 1.45 am when she accused Lumumba and placed herself at the scene. The police testified to this and so did Knox. She was again questioned about 4 hours later, according to her statement. She agrees that she was offered food and drink and the opportunity to go the bathroom throughout. She admits she lied about physical abuse and threats. I do not know if she was left alone to sleep between times: but this is nothing like the picture you have painted.

When the second session opened she was a suspect. Since the written statement she made about Lumumba at that stage was admitted in evidence in his case against her on the grounds that there was "no possibility of coercion" then, I am taking it that she had the lawyer and the interpreter she was entitled to since that is the only way that can be true. And indeed interpeters testified at the trial.

If this was anything like you describe you would be perfectly correct. But what you have presented is fantasy.

As far as the interrogations, I haven't read all that much about them. But... truth be told, I could crack someone in a matter of minutes, if I had to. Psychological stress can exhaust someone very quickly. The initial interrogation lasted 4 hours. Four hours being questioned... that's a LONG time, even if she was allowed food and bathroom breaks. The US uses a form of this kind of interrogation for married couples seeing a green card for one party. It's particularly nasty to be isolated and grilled like that. Add the fact that they were on drugs on the night in question, which I presume is illegal in Italy...

Add to that police accusing her of hiding something, insisting that she knows something, threatening her with prison time, smacking her upside the back of the head.

When I was in the military, at one point in training, our CO's would grab each one of us, put us in an interrogation room and question us about a crime that someone had committed. They threatened us with court martial, firing squads, hit us, kicked us... you name it, they did it. Two soldiers were waterboarded, for all intents and purposes.

You know, there were only two people who didn't admit to knowledge and give details about this crime. Some true, some ********, but once you gave details, you were treated really well and sent back to the barracks. They weren't investigating a crime at all, but rather testing us psychologically. Our officers found out a lot of interesting things that had been happening, because so many guys cracked and spilled their guts.

They wanted to see who they could trust, should any of us fall into enemy hands. But, had they really wanted to extract information, that was the way to do it. To see hardened, trained soldiers crack... I can't imagine how a 20 year old college student would fare.
 
I can't post links yet, but here's a clip from a Guardian article from October 27, 2008, regarding the DNA on the bra clasp:

I've also seen articles that state that it was Kercher, Sollecito and three unidentified people as well. The problem with news stories is that they're often not 100% accurate, if the prosecution doesn't want to tip their hand on that particular aspect. And, the fact that it was sitting there for six weeks leaves a lot to question.

But even if it was in the room for weeks afterwards, it's not as if Knox and Sollecito were back there to contaminate it after the fact, remember?

It's also been confirmed that Kercher's DNA on the knife was not from blood. From ABC News International on May 22, 2009:

So it was skin or something else. How did it get on a knife in Sollecito's house, where, according to testimony, Meredith had never been?

But, the million dollar question here is: Why is there only Guede's DNA on Kercher's body? If Sollecito and Knox were so heavily involved in the crime, their DNA would be everywhere in that bedroom. All over the bed, all over the floor, all over the victim. The only DNA they've found is Guede's. That strikes me as incredibly odd that Sollecito and Knox managed to clean away their own DNA, but not that of Guede. In fact, impossible. We shed DNA and cellular materials heavily throughout normal activity. During a crime like this, there will be sweat, blood, saliva, mucous, skin and hair shed, which will get all over the place. Why is it not there?

Without being graphic, do you know where Guede's DNA was discovered? It's a good hint that Guede's DNA was scrubbed from other places.

As far as the interrogations, I haven't read all that much about them. But... truth be told, I could crack someone in a matter of minutes, if I had to. Psychological stress can exhaust someone very quickly. The initial interrogation lasted 4 hours. Four hours being questioned... that's a LONG time, even if she was allowed food and bathroom breaks.

Heheh, earlier in the thread people were expressing sympathy with her for a supposed 31-hour interrogation, now we're supposed to believe that 4 hours is too long? Not to mention that it's really about 3 hours, as Fiona has detailed.
 
But, the million dollar question here is: Why is there only Guede's DNA on Kercher's body? If Sollecito and Knox were so heavily involved in the crime, their DNA would be everywhere in that bedroom. All over the bed, all over the floor, all over the victim. The only DNA they've found is Guede's. That strikes me as incredibly odd that Sollecito and Knox managed to clean away their own DNA, but not that of Guede. In fact, impossible.
Is that really a million dollar question? Is it mere speculation as to where they got the rapist's DNA from? And who else's DNA do you think should be there?

You'd make an awesome detective.

-Mike
 
Brainster,

The sites I have previously given call into serious question both the DNA evidence on the knife and on the clasp. To give just a taste of this issue, let me focus on some of the problems with low copy number (LCN) DNA analysis, the type used on the knife. Most courts do not accept LCN analysis as evidence, and only a few labs are even accredited. The organization that Dr. Stefanoni worked for is not, nor was it set up with a special ultra-clean laboratory that is needed to minimize the chances of artifacts. Yet they did the LCN analysis anyway.

The letter from nine DNA forensic scientists note that it is unlikely that all traces of blood could be removed but cells containing DNA remain. Given these kinds of problems, I take very seriously the statement from the forensic scientists’ letter that there was no credible scientific evidence linking the knife to the crime.

Chris
 
Mike,

You have written that Amanda’s blood was found with Meredith’s blood. That is not what I have read, which is that Amanda’s DNA was found with Meredith’s blood.

Chris
 
Brainster,

The sites I have previously given call into serious question both the DNA evidence on the knife and on the clasp. To give just a taste of this issue, let me focus on some of the problems with low copy number (LCN) DNA analysis, the type used on the knife. Most courts do not accept LCN analysis as evidence, and only a few labs are even accredited. The organization that Dr. Stefanoni worked for is not, nor was it set up with a special ultra-clean laboratory that is needed to minimize the chances of artifacts. Yet they did the LCN analysis anyway.

The letter from nine DNA forensic scientists note that it is unlikely that all traces of blood could be removed but cells containing DNA remain. Given these kinds of problems, I take very seriously the statement from the forensic scientists’ letter that there was no credible scientific evidence linking the knife to the crime.

Chris

And yet...the Defense didn't focus on this. Instead, they attempted to place Kercher at Sollecito's apt. Now, if your argument against the DNA evidence is valid, why would the Defense not present that as the defense? This is a much more effective means of explaining why Kercher's DNA could be found on the knife than is telling a lie about Kercher's visit to Sollecito's...


(Been watching this thread since it started, and I'm getting tired of people ignoring the long, involved posts Fiona, Quad, et al are posting simply because of what appears to be ethno-centrism.)
 
(Been watching this thread since it started, and I'm getting tired of people ignoring the long, involved posts Fiona, Quad, et al are posting simply because of what appears to be ethno-centrism.)

Same here, and that is annoying isn't it?
 
It seems odd to me that people are trying to decide this case from 5000 miles away, based on internet posts, without being in the courtroom or hearing the actual evidence. I am not saying, of course, that it is impossible for them to have been railroaded, but I doubt the ability of folks on an internet board to find it.

Unless someone else has already posted it, here is Ms Knox' own testimony (or a lot of it) from JUN 2009:

http://perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=165

Her memory is crystal clear about many details excepting the specifics of her whereabouts during the time the crime was committed. She affirms she was there and tries to explain a distinction among reality, imagination, and confusion. (These are the three states she claims to have been in at various times during the period discussed. She is confused and imagining things only during the time the crime was committed and during the fourth period of questioning when she accused her ex-boss.)

Would you want this person to be your alibi if you had been charged with a capital crime? Frankly, I cannot see why they let her get on the stand. Notably, in Italy, the witnesses are required to swear an oath but the accused is not.

Here is the part where Ms Knox explains the extent of the beating and other shoddy treatment alleged of the Perugia investigators:

LG: Now what interests me is that you should be precise about the term "hit",
because being hit is something...was it a cuff on the head, two cuffs on
the head? How precise can you be about this "hitting"?

AK: So, during the interrogation, people were standing all around me, in front of
me, behind me, one person was screaming at me from here, another person was
shouting "No no no, maybe you just don't remember" from over there, other
people were yelling other things, and a policewoman behind me did this to
me [you hear the sound of her giving two very little whacks].

LG: Once, twice?

AK: Twice. The first time I did this, I turned around to her, and she did it
again.

LG: I wanted to know this precise detail.

AK: Yes.

LG: After all that, that whole conversation, that you told us about, and you had
a crying crisis, did they bring you some tea, coffee, some cakes, something?
When was that exactly?

AK: They brought me things only after I had made some declarations. So, I was
there, they were all screaming at me, I only wanted to leave because I was
thinking that my mother was arriving, and I said look, can I have my telephone,
because I want to call my mom. They said no, and there was this big
mess with them shouting at me, threatening me, and it was only after I made
declarations that they started saying "No, no, don't worry, we'll protect you,"
and that's how it happened.

Luciano Ghirga (LG) is Knox' lawyer.
 
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Same here, and that is annoying isn't it?

Indeed.

Although, to be fair, it does tie back into the discussion concerning the sequestering of juries and such.

So much prejudice against the Prosecution based on hearsay and rumors fed via the Media. At what point is it really wise to release evidence to the public? Where should the line be drawn?

IMO, it appears that it would be most beneficial for a fair trial if all evidence was held until the trial and during the proceedings, the jury sequestered. I understand the desire here in the U.S. for a free press - but the press would not be quieted, there would just be a reasonable delay to protect the trial proceedings.
 
How is a decent journalist impeded from asking questions by a PR consultant?

Here is one of many entries at PMF discussing the role of David Marriott:

http://perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=180&p=19935#p19935

It is not unheard of in the USA and Canada for persons of interest to agree to an appearance fee or to pre-screen questions for media interviews. Do you live in North America? How does this differ from where you reside?

Once again, as always (!), I urge those following the case since the verdict to spend some time on that forum to become more familiar with the case and its alleged flaws. I've learned so much about the Italian justice system and even the characteristics of Italian idioms compared to those in English.

The subject of language appears over and over again. Knox frequently becomes agitated with the court translator as she understands Italian enough to get by. She also makes direct points about her questioning at the Perugia police station since the verbally aggressive investigators were always joined by an interpreter who she says created some of the confusion by whispering things in her ear that she says weren't translated properly if at all.

-------------

In regards to the initial crime scene where the postal police arrived to the surprise of Knox and Sollecito, it's become evident that they and the "real" police must have known immediately that the "burglar" could not have been Kercher's murderer. Why? Because Kercher's door was locked.

How would the "burglar" have the key to lock that door? He would have to have come into the house, murdered Kercher, stolen her keys and cellphones, locked the door, and departed without taking anything noticeable. The "burglar" also took the time to steal into Knox' room, take her bedside lamp, put it into Kercher's room, and then lock it inside.

The investigators' first suspicions must have been on someone who lived or had access to the dwelling. Since the boys downstairs had left town for Hallowe'en and the long weekend afterwards, the two Italian girls had strong alibis, and Sollecito and Knox were found at the scene the next day, they would have immediately been drawn to them.

This has to be why they were called down to the Questura (first as witnesses) so many times before they were officially charged. I just wonder why Sollecito and Knox wouldn't know that they were actually under investigation and immediately secure counsel. Arrogance? Stupidity? Both?
 
Indeed.

Although, to be fair, it does tie back into the discussion concerning the sequestering of juries and such.

Another distinction in the Italian justice system that became apparent to me after spending a lot of time at PMF is that, unlike North America, trials tend to be more drawn out. Whereas here there are likely to be proceedings daily (Mon - Fri), this particular trial had hearings only on Friday and Saturday. (If not precisely that infrequently then at least a lot less intensively than in North America.)

Sequestering individuals for that long, especially since many of the public aspects of the case would have already been known, might not be the best idea. I don't have the cite but there is some possibility that sequestering during the infamous OJ trial impaired the effectiveness of the jurors. It's not exactly the same, but consider that sports teams are essentially sequestered on road trips and tend to be less effective than when they are at home among family and familiar surroundings.
 
IMO, it appears that it would be most beneficial for a fair trial if all evidence was held until the trial and during the proceedings, the jury sequestered. I understand the desire here in the U.S. for a free press - but the press would not be quieted, there would just be a reasonable delay to protect the trial proceedings.

I sympathize, and media exposure is vexing problem, but I'm not sure how we keep the 'reasonable delay' from becoming unreasonable. In the case of the OJ trial, for example, it was nearly 3 years between the crime and the end of the civil trial.

It's easy for me to criticize, but I don't have a reasonable, balanced approach to suggest.
 
What is clear beyond doubt to me is that Amanda Knox is a psychopath, and a psychopathic liar.

Psychopathology makes legal cases unusually challenging.

But arguing forever about DNA doesn't change the huge number of lies that Knox has told.

I think in this case, on this board, scepticism has sometimes crossed over into the realm of excusing an extreme liar.

Amanda Knox is very fortunate that she has not been convicted in a state or a country where the death penalty would have been a possibility.

She deserves a new chance at a more honest life, after punishment and rehabilitation.
 
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