Referendum on Scottish Independence

ddt said:
Two practical questions though:
1) would I be able to pay with real currency in an independent Scotland? I mean, the ones you now use aren't even legal tender.
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Like Eire, we would go the Euro route in all probability.
 
Guybrush Threepwood said:
Sorry, I'll just exercise the chip on my shoulder again. The United Kingdom has had a land border with an entirely independent country for 90+ years, and has managed it fairly successfully. Currently the border is not only unpatrolled, but unmarked. In the past it has been more restricted, but there was a small scale internal war in the UK then. ;)

Part of the UK split off 90 years ago, the sun didn't fall from the sky then, and it won't now if the process is repeated.
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From wiki's entry on the Schengen Area:
Before joining the Schengen Area countries must upgrade their border controls with non-Schengen states so as to ensure the Area's integrity. Cyprus, which also joined the EU in 2004, did not meet the necessary criteria and thus has requested a delay for a year, while Romania and Bulgaria, which joined the EU in 2007, are still bringing their border controls up to the required standard.
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If either the UK or Eire now decided to join Schengen - and the other not - the current situation could not persist.

ETA: that wiki article has a whole section dedicated to how Ireland and the UK hold each other hostage w.r.t. extending their commitment to Schengen through their Common Travel Area.
 
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ddt said:
From wiki's entry on the Schengen Area:
If either the UK or Eire now decided to join Schengen - and the other not - the current situation could not persist.
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And if I had wheels I'd be a wagon.
What does that have to do with Scottish independence? There will always be things even an independent country can't do because of its relationships with its neighbours.
 
Guybrush Threepwood said:
And if I had wheels I'd be a wagon.
What does that have to do with Scottish independence? There will always be things even an independent country can't do because of its relationships with its neighbours.
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Because in case of Scottish independence, the Scots would have to decide whether to fully join Schengen or not. I assume that the EU would be willing to grant Scotland, as a successor state, the same exemption as the UK has now.

Yes would mean abolishing border controls with the Schengen Area but putting up border controls on their border with England. No means they could institute a similar border arrangement with England (*) as Ireland has now with the UK, but means continuing border controls with Schengen.

Methinks it is a very legitimate question.

ETA: (*) any takers on how a UK without Scotland would be named? "England" seems so unnice to the Welsh and the Northern Irish.
 
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Professor Yaffle said:
So not joining Schengen would mean things staying almost exactly as they are wrt border controls in Scotland, then?
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Of course, an independent Scotland could also choose not to join Schengen and institute rigorous border controls with England.
 
ddt said:
Of course, an independent Scotland could also choose not to join Schengen and institute rigorous border controls with England.
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Or indeed develop their own gigantic nuclear arsenal and hold the rest of the world hostage, however these fascinating questions are somewhat peripheral to an independence referendum.
 
Guybrush Threepwood said:
Or indeed develop their own gigantic nuclear arsenal and hold the rest of the world hostage, however these fascinating questions are somewhat peripheral to an independence referendum.
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Why your hostility to my question? As I gather, those in favour of Scottish independence are also in favour of remaining in the EU.

Then the question of the Scottish stance towards the Schengen treaty is very pertinent. The UK (and Ireland) now have an exemption to the rule that EU countries have to fully implement Schengen.

In case of a Scottish independence, and the renegotiations within the EU of all kinds of things for Scotland and rest-Britain, the question of Schengen also comes up directly. This is no pie in the sky.

And the issue of passport controls is a very practical one, for Scottish, British and Schengen citizens.
 
ddt said:
Why your hostility to my question? As I gather, those in favour of Scottish independence are also in favour of remaining in the EU.

Then the question of the Scottish stance towards the Schengen treaty is very pertinent. The UK (and Ireland) now have an exemption to the rule that EU countries have to fully implement Schengen.

In case of a Scottish independence, and the renegotiations within the EU of all kinds of things for Scotland and rest-Britain, the question of Schengen also comes up directly. This is no pie in the sky.

And the issue of passport controls is a very practical one, for Scottish, British and Schengen citizens.
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I don't mean to be hostile, it's just that the 'Passports to cross the Scottish border' meme is one that little Englanders bring up quite a bit. There are many issues an independent Scotland woud have to decide on, this is one of them, but hardly the most siginificant, and Scotland's situation would not be unique.
 
Guybrush Threepwood said:
I don't mean to be hostile, it's just that the 'Passports to cross the Scottish border' meme is one that little Englanders bring up quite a bit. There are many issues an independent Scotland woud have to decide on, this is one of them, but hardly the most siginificant, and Scotland's situation would not be unique.
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I remember a study done years ago where a large amount of inner city Londoners thought you needed a passport to go to Scotland.
 
ddt said:
Why your hostility to my question? As I gather, those in favour of Scottish independence are also in favour of remaining in the EU.

Then the question of the Scottish stance towards the Schengen treaty is very pertinent. The UK (and Ireland) now have an exemption to the rule that EU countries have to fully implement Schengen.

In case of a Scottish independence, and the renegotiations within the EU of all kinds of things for Scotland and rest-Britain, the question of Schengen also comes up directly. This is no pie in the sky.

And the issue of passport controls is a very practical one, for Scottish, British and Schengen citizens.
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We share an island with England. Not being in Schengen has virtually no negatives for Scotland or England. It is a non issue for me now when I travel and it would be a non issue is Scotland do not join. Its about the practicalities not the ideals in this case.
 
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