Four Police Officers Killed In Washington Coffee House

I agree that Huckabee made the wrong decision to commute this guys sentence but lets remember that this guy slipped through the cracks. His family never admitted him into a mental hospital even though he is obviously nuts. For his recent rape/felony trial the psychologist deemed him competent to stand trial. The the last sentence of the seattle article:

"He was returned to prison on a parole violation. But in what appears to have been a mistake, Clemmons was not actually served with the arrest warrants until leaving prison three years later. As a result, Clemmons' attorney argued that the charges should be dismissed because too much time had passed. Prosecutors dropped the charges."

So due to a series of mistakes and bad decisions it was allowed to happen. I don't blame it all on Huckabee but he surely made the wrong decision and probably for the wrong reasons.
 
Tiktaalik said:
Personally, I have a take-home vehicle, so I go to work in uniform, as do all my staff. Not around here, we're rural, but in many places it's pretty standard for cops to eat in local businesses. All my staff carry laptops & are required to check their email for messages on a regular basis. We don't have a "bullpen" or computer area, they just plug in to the network where they can. They also write all their reports on their laptops; there is a heck of a lot of paperwork that goes with being an officer, despite what you see on TV. We also don't have enough people on at any given time to do daily briefings or shift meetings; we do them once every two weeks. Everything else gets communicated in person, by phone, over the radio, or...via laptops.
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Thanks. I live & learn.
 
Latest word on CNN is that the guy wasn't in the house when they finally went in. So, he's still out there somewhere. Hopefully, he won't hurt or kill anybody else before he gets caught.
 
Peephole said:
Pretty disgusting that it takes less than 24 hours to turn the murder of four political.
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This is political. There are crimes that are political and crimes that are not.

These people are specifically dead because Huckabee found Jesus and decided to base his decision making off the crazy idea that a 2,000 year old book and people's dedication to following the contents of it was a better barometer of 'criminal' than our justice system.

Now if new facts are uncovered, old facts are questioned, or something else comes to light, I'll revisit this, but at the moment it's looking a lot like Mike Huckabee and his religion killed 4 people.
 
And I'll throw a religion snipe in here as well. You have to wonder, if like George W Bush...
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DING DING DING DING DING!!!!

Bad thing happens. Bush blamed. "Sophisticated" analysis of bad thing's "real reason" finished. Mission accomplished.
 
gtc said:
I would have thought so, but not now.

I have seen plenty of cops buying their lunches from cafes and food courts near me but never seen them sitting down to eat. That makes sense in light of what you write.
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I used to frequent a Denny's near me where I often would see tables of four officers sitting and eating. Since random unprovoked attacks like this are usually rare and the result of an individual psychotic, a lot of departments probably haven't considered the threat.
 
Skeptic said:
DING DING DING DING DING!!!!

Bad thing happens. Bush blamed. "Sophisticated" analysis of bad thing's "real reason" finished. Mission accomplished.
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That's it? You didn't even read what she wrote did you? You saw Bush's name and assumed he was being blamed. How about you address what was actually said rather than dismiss straw you've made up.

Got anything on the points being raised?
 
GreyICE said:
This is political. There are crimes that are political and crimes that are not.

These people are specifically dead because Huckabee found Jesus and decided to base his decision making off the crazy idea that a 2,000 year old book and people's dedication to following the contents of it was a better barometer of 'criminal' than our justice system.

Now if new facts are uncovered, old facts are questioned, or something else comes to light, I'll revisit this, but at the moment it's looking a lot like Mike Huckabee and his religion killed 4 people.
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Only evangelical Christians pardon criminals.
 
Skeptic said:
DING DING DING DING DING!!!!

Bad thing happens. Bush blamed. "Sophisticated" analysis of bad thing's "real reason" finished. Mission accomplished.
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They're like pre-programmed robots, aren't they?


Makes you wonder if they have the capacity to choose to be different?
 
Kestrel said:
Is there any physical evidence linking Clemmons to this crime?
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That hasn't been officially revealed yet but it looks like he left his car there when he fled and he left his blood there. He was reported now to have been driven to the Seattle house by a person who knows him. She called police after dropping him off. She said he was bleeding. The police say there is evidence he was at the house she said she took him to which also sounds like blood. And the police searched his house and they said there was evidence he went there after the shooting which again sounds like blood. And there is a guy saying the suspect spoke of shooting police though there is reward money someone could be motivated to lie for.

But he was gone before the police got to the last place he was supposed to be. So they have not caught him. But it does look like this is indeed the guy.
 
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GreyICE said:
This is political. There are crimes that are political and crimes that are not.

These people are specifically dead because Huckabee found Jesus and decided to base his decision making off the crazy idea that a 2,000 year old book and people's dedication to following the contents of it was a better barometer of 'criminal' than our justice system.

Now if new facts are uncovered, old facts are questioned, or something else comes to light, I'll revisit this, but at the moment it's looking a lot like Mike Huckabee and his religion killed 4 people.
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That would be 5. The Arkansas rapist Huck let out also raped and murdered a woman.
 
tyr_13 said:
That's it? You didn't even read what she wrote did you? You saw Bush's name and assumed he was being blamed. How about you address what was actually said rather than dismiss straw you've made up.

Got anything on the points being raised?
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Actually Bush in this case did the opposite. He refused to pardon murderers that found God. Karla Faye Tucker was a famous case. OTOH, it is statistically probably Bush allowed at least one but maybe more innocent men to be executed because Bush refused to take his duty to review cases seriously.
 
skeptigirl said:
Actually Bush in this case did the opposite. He refused to pardon murderers that found God. Karla Faye Tucker was a famous case. OTOH, it is statistically probably Bush allowed at least one but maybe more innocent men to be executed because Bush refused to take his duty to review cases seriously.
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Seems to me if you're relying on the Governor to determine the guilt/innocence of an accused murderer your justice system is screwed up.
 
WildCat said:
No, only evangelical Christians pardon criminals solely because they claim to have found Jeeeeeesus.
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Is there any evidece he was pardoned solely because he claimed to have found Jesus.

GreyIce said:
These people are specifically dead because Huckabee found Jesus and decided to base his decision making off the crazy idea that a 2,000 year old book and people's dedication to following the contents of it was a better barometer of 'criminal' than our justice system.
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Is there any evidence this is the case?
 
http://www.arktimes.com/blogs/arkansasblog/2009/11/maurice_clemmons_record.aspx
* Sentenced to 5 years for robbery in Pulaski County, Aug. 3, 1989.

* Sentenced to 8 years for burglary, theft and probation revocation in Pulaski County, Sept. 9, 1989

* Sentenced to an indeterminate amount for aggravated robbery and theft in Pulaski County, Nov. 15, 1989

* Sentenced to 20 years each for burglary and theft of property in Pulaski County, Feb. 23, 1990.

* Sentenced to 6 years for firearm possession in Pulaski County, Nov. 19, 1990.

Tyler said some sentences were concurrent and some consecutive. But the total effect of all these sentences was a sentence of 108 years.

On May 3, 2000, Gov. Mike Huckabee commuted Clemmons' sentence to 47 years, 5 months and 19 days, which made him eligible for parole that day. The Parole Board granted his parole July 13, 2000. He was released Aug. 1, 2000.
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So he had served 10 years for several robberies commited when he was 16-17 . Is that an unusual commutation. I don't really know. The sentances seem excessive to me but maybe not in Arkansas.
 
Travis said:
Seems to me if you're relying on the Governor to determine the guilt/innocence of an accused murderer your justice system is screwed up.
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The justice system is screwed up. It hasn't yet figured out that eyewitness testimony is often flawed.

The governor can rely on educated qualified people to review the cases. The reason why this safety net matters is it is the one place where common sense can be injected into the system that otherwise typically acts on rules and procedures regardless of common sense. Thus you get frightening rulings like the recent minority comment from Scalia that is is OK to execute a known to be innocent person as long as you followed due process.
 
skeptigirl said:
The justice system is screwed up. It hasn't yet figured out that eyewitness testimony is often flawed.

The governor can rely on educated qualified people to review the cases. The reason why this safety net matters is it is the one place where common sense can be injected into the system that otherwise typically acts on rules and procedures regardless of common sense. Thus you get frightening rulings like the recent minority comment from Scalia that is is OK to execute a known to be innocent person as long as you followed due process.
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Unfortunately it derives from precedent that states that the purpose of a trial is not to determine actual guilt or innocence.
 
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