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Split Thread 'Nose-out' footage

So.......the resident no-planers gonna put their money where their mouths are are license the footage? Or will there always be some excuse to avoid it?

Given the track record thus far, I predict avoidance. If I'm right, do I get the million bucks? :)
 
triforcharity said:
They belong to NIST I believe, and some belong to FEMA, and all are licensed for public domain.
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Thanks for clearing that up, trifo. I can only find the one with the blue cast on FEMA's site. I found the link to the other at ATS.


carlitos said:
Indeed.
[qimg]http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/k2.jpg/k2-full.jpg[/qimg]
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Any thoughts on whether there are two pieces of fuselage here next to each other here?

http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af74/waypastvne/Copyofplanepartrf20-full.jpg


A W Smith said:
These witnesses were duped?
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/whattheysaw:eyewitnessaccountsofthenycai
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I'll let a debunker answer that one for me:

carlitos said:
Just taking the scientific method for a moment, eyewitness testimony is the least persuasive
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fitzgibbon said:
So.......the resident no-planers gonna put their money where their mouths are are license the footage? Or will there always be some excuse to avoid it?

Given the track record thus far, I predict avoidance. If I'm right, do I get the million bucks? :)
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Considering the inordinate amount of time debunkers are willing to spend discussing a totally insane theory, it might be worth you lot chipping together and licencing the footage just to put the matter at rest.


DGM said:
Wouldn't it be nice if all was equal and all it took to debunk their "theories" was to say,"it's all fake, your wrong" and they believed it? Maybe someday we should teach them what "double standard" means.
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It would be nice if you spent less time trying to debunk truther theories and paid more attention to verifying the government's theory.


parky76 said:
i wish i had that damn photo. but when i first saw it, i was not thrilled by his pride in a pic of such a tragedy.

but now i see it as valuable evidence.
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Gone forever like the steel that was shipped to China.
 
bardamu said:
It would be nice if you spent less time trying to debunk truther theories and paid more attention to verifying the government's theory.


.
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I did a long time ago. I didn't have as easy a job though because I had to except evidence that didn't support my predetermined conclusion. It must be nice in your world where you can pick and choose.
 
Popping in during lunch so I did not get a chance to read the page and a half since I was last here.....
bardamu said:
I said hi-res originals might show that the two are identical. It would be nice to have access to a good copy.
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Then do what has been suggested. Purchase a copy of it from the holder of the copyright.
Better yet you can get it basically free if you can supoena it. No broadcaster is going to release it free to any Joe off the Street but if its part of a court case that could be different. Until that time comes you are 'working' with a sow's ear and attempting to fashion a silk purse out of it. Until you pony up and buy silk its always going to smell like and look like a sow's ear.

So gather up all your 'evidence' and bring a court case. That is, after all, what the 911 TM keeps calling for, you have lawyers capable of handling the case. What is stopping this from occuring?
Nahhh, instead you would prefer to argue endlessly on the internet calling for this that and the other thing but unwilling to actually DO anything concrete.

Right?





To imitate a bullet exactly, it would have to flip over 180 degrees and come out perfectly horizontally.
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Is this what you expect would have exited the building, cowling and all?




I was addressing the other theory, which seems to be suggesting that the dust was pushed out by the nose of the plane:
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I must have missed that theory. Its wrong. Unless the air in the tower was hugly dusty when the aircraft entered it there would be little 'pushed out' by the engine. I could imagine that perhaps some debris was being pushed with the engine, the last desk it hit, file cabinet, something substantial that would only come partially apart if hit dead on by the engine.

Behind the engine though, of course, its all hell breaking loose, drywall being disintegrated, carpets torn apart, etc. So that would be following along in the vortex behind the engine.




The flour follows the bullet out of the other side. The trouble is, the nose out has the general shape of the nose and cockpit of the plane. What are the chances that the dust could take on that shape, or what are the chances that video artifacts could make it look that way?
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Sow's ear again!

"The general shape" of a wide cone is also the general shape of a cylinder, especially if the cylinder is not in perfect profile.

How far back in the aircraft does this 'cone' extend" The entire fuselage is no more than 18 feet in diameter and the diameter of the engine's fan blades is 8 feet.
The nose then goes from its front point to 18 feet in a distance of about 30 feet(look it up and either accept this or correct it) about a 17 degree angle so the 'nose cone' is at a diameter of 8 feet approx 13 feet back from the very front of the aircraft.
Is the object you see in the video about 13 feet long? Wow, that is within inches of the length of a PW4000!

So somebody could have thrown a manual switch?
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Yes, it happens often especially in live TV and most especially in events that cannot be scripted/ Scripted live events are things like sports games, parades, "Dancing with the Stars" type shows, and even more often in high adrenaline live events such as witnessing the deaths of hundreds of people.


By examining how quickly the switch to black was, can you judge which of these scenarios would be most likely?
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No!

There was also a transmission black-out on WABC (and also fed to CNN) slightly earlier, and it seemed to happen just as the broadcast was being switched from one camera feed to another.
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So? How many people were involved along the signal paths to all destinations?




The floors were at 12 foot intervals, not the columns.
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Well my point was that the piece of fuselage in question is much less than 12 feet wide, and that it could easily have fit through a window opening ESPECIALLY if preceeded by a significant portion of the aircraft which would tear away the columns.




I heard a reporter for a TV channel say the police were moving everybody north, but I'm not sure what time that was.
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Then that bit of info is useless in this discussion isn't it?
 
bardamu said:
T
Any thoughts on whether there are two pieces of fuselage here next to each other here?

http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af74/waypastvne/Copyofplanepartrf20-full.jpg
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I don't understand your question.

You wave away all of the witness testimony, which, as noted, could have inconsistencies, but by and large agrees with the video evidence of the day. You wave away all of the physical evidence, which is myriad. You ignore the documentary evidence, like flight manifests and air traffic control recors. You seem to be denying the video evidence which was seen from many cameras that were filming the first tower on fire.

Was there ever an American Airlines Flight 11? Did anyone ever buy tickets? Was there a crew? What about the transfer passengers from other airports - did some of them make the connection?

Was there ever a United Airlines Flight 175? Did anyone board this plane, taxi and take off? Did the Air Traffic Control not track this plane until it collided with the World Trade Center?

Is anything real? Do you have a theory that explains events as we saw them?
 
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bardamu said:
For me, Bill, the strongest evidence is the positioning of the TV cameras at the time of the second plane hit. It's hard to know exactly how many different cameras there were, but it's at least 16 and they were all on the north side of the WTC, so none of them filmed the impact. That meant that all the live shots could be kept relatively simple by making the planes disappear behind the buildings. You only need to watch the first 15 minutes or so of each channel in the archives to confirm it. The debunkers will say that's EXACTLY HOW YOU'D EXPECT the TV cameras to be positioned as they covered the 9/11 attacks on the WTC. They won't even admit it's a coincidence.

The position of Chopper 5 and Chopper 7 are especially suspect. This is what I learned from Ace Baker's research:
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I have to admit I laughed and laughed and laughed at that comment.

the cameras that could be most quickly deployed would be ones on the roofs of the network's own buildings and the ones in traffic helicopters. Getting cameras on the streets would take time since by then traffic is at a standstill and the crew would pretty much have to walk.
 
hand waves away thousands of cooborating eyewitess testimony as "unreliable"

No sense continuing to argue with a mental defect. Good luck with your troubles bardamu. One more final question for you. Are you or have you ever been under the psychiatric care of a doctor? If not, seek help for your paranoid delusions.
 
Bardamu,please help an ignorant European.Could you please state in a coherent manner your explanation of the events that took place on 9/11?
 
jaydeehess said:
the cameras that could be most quickly deployed would be ones on the roofs of the network's own buildings and the ones in traffic helicopters. Getting cameras on the streets would take time since by then traffic is at a standstill and the crew would pretty much have to walk.
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No kidding. And the networks are all up in midtown, so you're talking about a pretty long walk.
 
dafydd said:
Bardamu,please help an ignorant European.Could you please state in a coherent manner your explanation of the events that took place on 9/11?
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Good luck. He has his hands full hand waving away the massive amount of evidence that contradicts him. A rational narrative that fits the available evidence better than the commonly-held narrative of events is totally out of the question.
 
bardamu said:
fitzgibbon said:
So.......the resident no-planers gonna put their money where their mouths are are license the footage? Or will there always be some excuse to avoid it?

Given the track record thus far, I predict avoidance. If I'm right, do I get the million bucks? :)
Click to expand...
Considering the inordinate amount of time debunkers are willing to spend discussing a totally insane theory, it might be worth you lot chipping together and licencing the footage just to put the matter at rest.
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It isn't the debunkers that disbelieve. It's the no-planer contingent of the 'truth' squad. Ergo, until and unless the no-planers pool their pennies and license the furthest-upstream footage to prove that the first-generation footage is different in some significant way from their YouTube/VHS version, this whole thread isn't worth the phosphor time.

Oh silly me! The resident no-planers have implied that they've seen the first-generation footage and deemed it 'fixed'.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
 
Further to:
There was also a transmission black-out on WABC (and also fed to CNN) slightly earlier, and it seemed to happen just as the broadcast was being switched from one camera feed to another.
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I said:

So? How many people were involved along the signal paths to all destinations?
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I was assuming that you were referring to this same video going to multiple destinations. I realize now that you might be referring to two different feeds that both experienced a momentary black. If two feeds experienced a momentary black out at the exact seme time that would narrow down the possible causes IF the cause in each case were assumed to be the same.
If it is a problem of RF interference with a wireless feed then yes it certainly could affect two wireless feeds at the exact same time, especially if both stations are using identical equipment or even equipment from the same manufacturer (i.e. Panasonic).
If the times ae different then we go back to the fact that this was a live event, an unscripted event that would have adrenaline pumping and emotions running high in the people (read, 'humans') involved in putting it to air
 
jaydeehess said:
Would there be a line of sight to the WTC fom 30 Rockefeller Plaza where NBC hdqtrs are? Which is also , IIRC, right across the street from the Fox office bldg.
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Probably not. The Empire Building is in the way. (I used to have a window office on the South side of 30 Rock, 19th floor. Great views everywhere but South but it was a great show when an electrical storm passed over the ESB.)

5Th Ave (one block E. of 30 Rock) has a clear LOS down to WTC.
 
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