The VFF Test is On!

[Uncayimmy]

That contradicts your assertion that "This is not a minor error at all." The reality is that it does make a miniscule difference whether you have 1728 or 1729 people.

Your language is imprecise. It took me reading your posts several times to realize you were talking about the pigeon hole effect. Yes, if you have more guesses than choices, you will have duplicate guesses. That's patently obvious, and nobody is contradicting that assertion. In fact, we built a game around this very concept so that even children understand it:

For all practical purposes, an impossibility except if the coin is not fair or the paranormal is at work.

I fixed that for you.

 

[Uncayimmy]

I do get your point. You have to draw the line somewhere. For me, Anita definitely falls on the "no interest" side of the line now, but something like, say, dowsing, is still worth further testing, even though there is a vast amount of evidence against it, because it enjoys so much popular support.

I don't think another dowsing (like for water) test should ever be conducted again.

1) There's no dispute about the "apparent" accuracy.

b) We all acknowledge that the little rods or whatever do something

* We have a well-documented explanation called the ideomotor effect

IV) We have countless documented tests including a number of YouTube videos showing epic failures when dowsers are blinded to the target.

Further tests only lend credence to the claim. The only thing to do at this point is say, "Here's how you set up a test. Do it, record it, and post it. Otherwise, go away."

You can't do much about True Believers. However, if you show this video to a reasonable person who just wants to understand, it's a done deal. In my opinion time is better spent on those willing to learn rather than butting heads with True Believers.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

JoeTheJuggler has been inferring that Anita's Preliminary Demonstration did not qualify for the IIG Paranormal Challenge and that is simply incorrect.

Um--you mean implying not inferring, I think.

At any rate, what I've been saying is that the $24K was never on the line because the IIG had not reached an agreement on a final test protocol with Anita, and from what I heard, it sounded as if such an agreement was extremely unlikely.

You could clear this up by posting the final protocol that Anita and the IIG had agreed upon.

 

[jhunter1163]

Why has VFF/Anita been Suspended?

ETA - I’ve been told it was for making threats. Must have missed it. The only things I can see that Blondie has threatened are - credibility, truth and sanity.

Hoo boy. The stench of burning martyr will be heavy in the air upon her return.

 

[cj.23]

Um, she scored about what 25%? That was a fail. If she could do it consistently over three more trials I'd be a bit more impressed - her power is just not as accurate as she claims, if it exists at all.. At the moment I'd say, yeah, nice try.

Still I have a helluva lot of time for VFF - because thought it took an age she actually took the test, and while I think she should accept she failed it, she certainly was a lot more brave, gracious and decent than those who constantly refuse to be tested at all.

So I'm going to say good on you Anita, you may not have psychic powers, or at least not as you thought, but I think you believe in your abilities, and i respect the fact you actually stood up and gave it a go. Because of those two things I would not class you with the scammers and the scumballs.

Because they would never risk a test that was not under their control. You may be wrong, but you are it would seem at heart a genuine and sensible person. You may have failed, and you may not be able to accept that just now, but it took guts to try.

So while in now way endorsing VFF's abilities, I do wish more people who think they are psychic would actually put them,selves on the line, and not jsut run scams that prey upon others. As far as i know VFF has never made a dollar from this - and if she had been able to prove apower we would have taken a big leap forward. So good on ya gal

all the best
cj x

 

[Maia]

Memory works like that. It is only relatively recently that it has been shown experimentally that even long-term memories are far more labile than had been thought - each time they are recalled they appear to be as open to modification as when originally laid down. See Reconsolidation of Episodic Memories.

What is happening to Anita's memories is quite normal - the problem is not with the memories per se, but with the faulty belief structure that is progressively distorting them.

Well... I have to disagree with you on that one. IMHO, inaccurate memory is NOT what this phenomenon is about. But everyone has their own take on it.

 

[SezMe]

As an aside, and Rodney aside, I've enjoyed this post-test discussion. Lots of good points and informative posts.

 

[wardenclyffe]

Maia,

You seem to believe there's a likelyhood that VfF got her one and only "hit" through nefarious means. It seems as though this would have involved a conspiracy that included VfF, bookitty and #24 from the test (and maybe IIG). You must have something in mind; could you describe what you think the most likely scenario would be?

It seems possible, but I'm having trouble fitting in this latest development that bookitty brought up - that VfF was told after the test who #24 was, but did not complain about it for a week until it was revealed here. That's the part of the conspiracy that I'm having trouble reconciling. Why would bookitty mention it?

Ward

 

[GeeMack]

Still I have a helluva lot of time for VFF - because thought it took an age she actually took the test, and while I think she should accept she failed it, she certainly was a lot more brave, gracious and decent than those who constantly refuse to be tested at all.

But... but... she ignored virtually every legitimate suggestion to tune up her protocol to make it reasonable, declared what she eventually came up with to be perfect, stated in no uncertain terms that she would announce the end of her paranormal claims if she failed, and ultimately enlisted the time, effort, and expertise of no less than a hundred and fifty good people to make it happen. She went to LA for the demonstration, failed miserably as expected by all including Anita, then proceeded to completely blow off everything she had said up front.

She's been bitching and complaining about the protocol, right here in this thread, and she will be again when she gets back from being suspended for not being gracious and decent. She's lied to people and lied about people repeatedly. She keeps trying to redefine the intent of the demonstration to weasel it into a success. And now she's making noise about having another test without so much as a genuine thank-you to most anyone who helped her or an apology to the dozens and dozens of people she crapped on to make the first one happen.

Gracious and decent? Sure, if you say so, but I don't think you'll find many who were actually involved who will agree with you.

 

[cj.23]

Not read that far yet, still am. Was not aware that it was that painful a process as have been away for a few months, but I still would say yes, she at least tried. When certain litigious mediumistic/psychic claimants do that I'll revise my opinion, but VFF at least tried.

I think the justifications and excuses are to be expected, as people do that with sincerely held ideas when proven wrong. But in comparison with a LOT of the people here VFF actually engaged, tried, and seems to have believed fully in her powers. Most people are irritatingly elusive in comparison.

But yes my sincere sympathy and gratitude to all who worked on the test
cj x

 

[GeeMack]

Not read that far yet, still am. Was not aware that it was that painful a process as have been away for a few months, but I still would say yes, she at least tried. When certain litigious mediumistic/psychic claimants do that I'll revise my opinion, but VFF at least tried.

Going through the motions in order to get up on stage and be the center of attention for a couple hours is quite a different thing than actually trying. Trying would imply that she had some intent to apply the results to at least a minimally objective and legitimate analysis. She certainly hasn't shown any willingness to do that. In fact she has adamantly refused to do anything of the sort.

 

[desertgal]

Going through the motions in order to get up on stage and be the center of attention for a couple hours is quite a different thing than actually trying. Trying would imply that she had some intent to apply the results to at least a minimally objective and legitimate analysis. She certainly hasn't shown any willingness to do that. In fact she has adamantly refused to do anything of the sort.

Exactly.

<snip>Still I have a helluva lot of time for VFF - because thought it took an age she actually took the test, and while I think she should accept she failed it, she certainly was a lot more brave...

That wasn't courage. That was bravado. "Brave" would be to honestly confront reality, identify that she has some issues, abandon her attention seeking and her farce of a 'scientific investigation' and seek the help she needs.

...gracious and decent...

No, sorry, she hasn't been. She has not only ducked responsibility for her failure, she's palmed it off onto other people.

...than those who constantly refuse to be tested at all.

She DOES constantly refuse to be tested. She has made any number of claims that would be infinitely easier to test, with more reliable results, and she rejects them all in favor of the one that will give her the most limelight.

So I'm going to say good on you Anita, you may not have psychic powers, or at least not as you thought, but I think you believe in your abilities, and i respect the fact you actually stood up and gave it a go. Because of those two things I would not class you with the scammers and the scumballs.

Do you think contacting a migraine support group, and offering to cure their migraines with an untested, unproven, paranormal ability is not scamming?

Because they would never risk a test that was not under their control.

And Anita has repeatedly refused to take simple, effective tests because she could not control the results.

You may be wrong, but you are it would seem at heart a genuine and sensible person.

Uh...not so much.

So while in now way endorsing VFF's abilities, I do wish more people who think they are psychic would actually put them,selves on the line, and not jsut run scams that prey upon others.

Do you think contacting a migraine support group, and offering to cure their migraines with an untested, unproven, paranormal ability is not preying on vulnerable people? People with migraines need real solutions-not a pseudo scientist offering a treatment that has no basis in reality, and cannot be effective in any way.

If Anita wants to believe in her 'abilities', that is her prerogative, but that isn't all she's doing. She's 'diagnosing' ailments, and offering to 'cure' migraines with an 'ability' that doesn't exist. There's nothing admirable about that.

As far as i know VFF has never made a dollar from this...<snip>

And? Is the potential for harm any less because she's never accepted money for 'diagnosing' ailments or 'curing' migraines?

 

[ynot]

She DOES constantly refuse to be tested. She has made any number of claims that would be infinitely easier to test, with more reliable results, and she rejects them all in favor of the one that will give her the most limelight.

Not just the limelight - VFF is keen on the “kidneys” test purely because the way she interprets the results it gives her a multi-level chance of “success”. Right person wrong side is still a “success” to her as I imagine so is wrong person right side. A test that has only a right/wrong conclusion isn’t what she wants because she knows full well the result will always be wrong beyond the odds of lucky guess. If she were deluded or honest she would do the simple “is there a person behind the clothing?” test suggested. Her refusal to do this test because it’s “remote viewing” is the most ludicrous and dishonest thing she has said in my opinion.

 

[Uncayimmy]

Um, she scored about what 25%? That was a fail. If she could do it consistently over three more trials I'd be a bit more impressed - her power is just not as accurate as she claims, if it exists at all.. At the moment I'd say, yeah, nice try.

If she continued to get one right per three trials (say 5 successes in 15 trials), that's still only a 1 in 169 chance. Big whoop.

Still I have a helluva lot of time for VFF - because thought it took an age she actually took the test, and while I think she should accept she failed it, she certainly was a lot more brave, gracious and decent than those who constantly refuse to be tested at all.

Brave? She said in advance that she expected to fail and that it wouldn't really change how she viewed past experiences. What's brave about that? What did she have on the line?

Gracious and decent? You haven't been reading this thread.

Because they would never risk a test that was not under their control. You may be wrong, but you are it would seem at heart a genuine and sensible person. You may have failed, and you may not be able to accept that just now, but it took guts to try.

She didn't risk anything, as I noted above. Also, in each trial she gave one official answer and had a second unofficial answer in her notes. As soon as the test was over and the results were in, she tried to use her second, unofficial answer to show that she was right (she was wrong in her backup guess as well).

On top of that she possibly had foreknowledge of the only target she got right. She was told about this right after the test. She didn't mention it. Later, the person here who might have accidentally tipped her off brought it up. Anita then accused that person of "ruining" her test.

I'm just not seeing what you're seeing.

So while in now way endorsing VFF's abilities, I do wish more people who think they are psychic would actually put them,selves on the line, and not jsut run scams that prey upon others. As far as i know VFF has never made a dollar from this - and if she had been able to prove apower we would have taken a big leap forward. So good on ya gal

Sorry, but this was nothing more than a spectacle. She has nothing worthy of any investigation whatsoever. It was a tragedy before it ever got off the ground. She should have spent that money on getting some help.

 

[fromdownunder]

Maia,

You seem to believe there's a likelyhood that VfF got her one and only "hit" through nefarious means. It seems as though this would have involved a conspiracy that included VfF, bookitty and #24 from the test (and maybe IIG). You must have something in mind; could you describe what you think the most likely scenario would be?

It seems possible, but I'm having trouble fitting in this latest development that bookitty brought up - that VfF was told after the test who #24 was, but did not complain about it for a week until it was revealed here. That's the part of the conspiracy that I'm having trouble reconciling. Why would bookitty mention it?

Ward

Anything that fits Anita's idea that she really, really, truly must have another test will be grabbed by her as an excuse. It does not involve logic. Logic is not her strong suit.

And she will retrofit any event into an excuse as to why the preliminary Test was flawed, so it did not provide, according to her, evidence for anything, and that she really, really truly needs a second test (then a third, fourth, fifth......). No conspiracy involved, just Anita's defence mechanism coming out in full "I am always right" mode.

As to your final question, bookitty is the person to answer this.

Norm

 

[GeeMack]

Not just the limelight - VFF is keen on the “kidneys” test purely because the way she interprets the results it gives her a multi-level chance of “success”. Right person wrong side is still a “success” to her as I imagine so is wrong person right side. A test that has only a right/wrong conclusion isn’t what she wants because she knows full well the result will always be wrong beyond the odds of lucky guess. If she were deluded or honest she would do the simple “is there a person behind the clothing” test suggested. Her refusal to do this test because it’s “remote viewing” is the most ludicrous and dishonest thing she has said in my opinion.

More ludicrous and dishonest than this?...

When was the paranormal ever at work?

I don't believe in the paranormal. Either I can't do what I think I have done in the past, or there is something interesting, but not paranormal, at work.

 

[Uncayimmy]

Not just the limelight - VFF is keen on the “kidneys” test purely because the way she interprets the results it gives her a multi-level chance of “success”. Right person wrong side is still a “success” to her as I imagine so is wrong person right side. A test that has only a right/wrong conclusion isn’t what she wants because she knows full well the result will always be wrong beyond the odds of lucky guess. If she were deluded or honest she would do the simple “is there a person behind the clothing?” test suggested. Her refusal to do this test because it’s “remote viewing” is the most ludicrous and dishonest thing she has said in my opinion.

But entirely consistent with what she has told us from Day One.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128149

 

[ynot]

More ludicrous and dishonest than this?...

But that might have been merely memory loss. The ludicrous and dishonest “remote viewing” claim is a deliberate and knowing attempt to avoid a test that would give a credible and definite conclusion.
and I raise you a

 

[bookitty]

Maia,

You seem to believe there's a likelyhood that VfF got her one and only "hit" through nefarious means. It seems as though this would have involved a conspiracy that included VfF, bookitty and #24 from the test (and maybe IIG). You must have something in mind; could you describe what you think the most likely scenario would be?

It seems possible, but I'm having trouble fitting in this latest development that bookitty brought up - that VfF was told after the test who #24 was, but did not complain about it for a week until it was revealed here. That's the part of the conspiracy that I'm having trouble reconciling. Why would bookitty mention it?

Ward

There was no collusion. Yes, there was a volunteer (me) who had read these forums and had gotten dragged into the drama but nothing more.

Why did I mention it? For a few reasons. I feel that Anita's single correct guess has hurt her chances of letting this die down. I'm not sure that any of this is in her best interest. Not now and not for her future.

So it was very frustrating to be sitting on this information about the second trial while she was crowing about a future test. Because I had written the posts that may have given her information, they seemed significant. All of it was bunched up together in memory. (Later when I went back over them, I had some doubts.)

Honestly, I wish I had waited until IIG had released their full report. The information about trial two would be included, along with the fact that Anita knew after the test. It would have wrapped things up in a much neater fashion and would have been less dramatic. Not to mention that it's their story to tell, not mine.

Hope that helps.

 

[ynot]

But entirely consistent with what she has told us from Day One.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128149

Ludicrous and dishonest from day one.