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Split Thread 'Nose-out' footage

It is interesting that you speak of Pomeroo who has been banned from here for over a year. But let me guess, you are JUST a long time lurker...right?

TAM:)

Do you think that bardamu might really be Pomeroo in disguise ?
 
I find you guys hilarious with all your 'ignoring'. I do not respond to certain posters but I don't need an ''ignore' button to do so and I definaitely don't need to make a song and dance about it like you do.

Some things you like to do Bill; Ignore evidence the blows your conspiracy theory right out of the water, avoid answering direct questions which lead up to the evidence which blows your conspiracy theory out of the water. No attempt to acquire or use common sense.

In summary; You just like to troll because the only other alternative you seem to have is tying a porkchop around your neck so that the dog will give you some attention.
 
Wow for a recent member you seem to have a fairly good working knowledge of forum members who were banned before your membership became active.

I think some of the laundry has come back

It is interesting that you speak of Pomeroo who has been banned from here for over a year. But let me guess, you are JUST a long time lurker...right?

Nope, but I cannot write anymore about this because it would violate the membership agreement.

Paranoid much?
 
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I'm not sure exactly what you imagine the inverse square law to be, or in what way you think it's relevant to a phenomenon that's clearly limited in the angle over which it has an effect, but it seems that you're saying that dust expelled by overpressure during a building collapse behaves differently, and appears different, to a mixture of dust, deflagrating jet fuel and solid debris with some significant initial momentum. Well, duh.

I don't see broken columns on the north side of the South Tower, so all this stuff went through separate windows, then instead of spreading outwards, it tapered off into a rounded tip. Do you have any references that would explain the physics behind this?


The low-res compression artefacts wouldn't be correlated in any deterministic way to the lateral position of the image on the screen, so there would be no reason for the emerging object to be consistently different to the pre-impact object. And these effects would be limited to the edge pixels; the difference was clear and obvious without having to look on a single pixel scale.

The debunkers would like people to believe that it's because the images are low quality that the nose out looks like the nose in. The truth is, it's the compression artefacts that are causing the slight differences, and the hi-res originals might show that the two are identical.


Here's a concept for all you no-planers: pool your pennies and license the footage. Radical concept, eh? :boggled:

You'd think the TV companies would want to release all the footage as part of the historical record. They could even make money selling the DVDs. There really is no justification for sitting on it, and it's only reasonable to suppose there's something in the videos they don't want us to see.


Explain why you dispute this explanation.
Can you agree that the 'squib' ejecta fans out because it exits a small opening (the window frame) and encounters still air?
If so then explain your dispute with my explanation of the smoke and dust/debris that came out after the engine punched a hole in the wall.

Is the engine facing forwards or backwards as the cloud of dust and debris follows in its wake?


Feel free to fire a bullet into an object and watch the debris come out the other side. It isn't hard to see.

So if you fire a bullet into a sack of flour, some of the flour will come out of the other side in the shape of the bullet?


Just like a twoof with piss poor research skills... WHY were they there? Were they just on the street corner randomly filming? YOu might want to research that.

They were documenting the event.


Is our newest no planer STILL arguing about lossy anomalous video images instead of trying to figure out why thousands of people saw something he claims didn't exist?

Why were people not paging each other saying: "Hey, did you see a plane just fly low over Manhattan? It went right over our offices"?

Why were people saying: "CNN are reporting that a plane has flown into the WTC"?

Why did a woman say at 8:51am: "THE WORLD TRADE CENTER HAS JUST BLOWN UP, WE SEEN THE EXPLOSION OUTSIDE OUR WINDOWS"?


Um, what do you think??

Had their ever been another day in history where a 767 was crashed into a skyscraper at ~500 MPH??

Another first on 9/11 then. How many is that? Maybe we should start a thread on it:

First hi-rise building to collapse primarily due to fire, first time a plane has gone completely inside a building, first time dust has scattered into a point...


He sounds like a competent camerman to me.

The TV companies should offer him a job, since none of their cameramen managed to catch the actual impact at all, let alone frame it in an aesthetically pleasing way.


I can think of several ways that only one destination for a video source could be affected but I doubt that bard wants to hear them.

But is there any evidence for them? Are any of them even plausible?
 
He offered his opinion. It isn't unusual for experts in one specialised field to leverage their skillset and offer and opinion in a related field.

I think we can conclude that both Steve Wright and Anthony Lawson are unreliable as expert witnesses and could even be described as charlatans.


You were there, eh? You know the exact timeline of events in that chopper? Or are you just spinning another speculation as to when exactly in that video that the pilot passed on this information?

The cameraman says he zoomed in after the pilot told him the plane was approaching. Call it argument from incredulity, but I wouldn't expect him to be concerned about checking focus for a possible zoom at a time like that. I'd expect him to point his camera at the plane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64lWubr31No


Do you know what Newton's third law is?

Nothing to do with dust clouds tapering into a point.


Bully for him.

Interesting that you don't deny Ace Baker's composites behave like the 9/11 videos. The truth is, the 9/11 plane videos have more in common with Ace Baker's composites than they do with videos or pictures of any other plane crash in history. For people who haven't seen the composites, here are the (live) Chopper 7 and Chopper 5 shots:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeXvMblFwO0

and the (post-production) Hezerkhani reconstruction:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNXmgF2yAEc

Maybe you could explain why you think your vertical wipe would be more effective than Ace's luma key mask, bearing in mind that a chopper can't keep perfectly still.


He just can't explain how it is that everyone in NYC within view of the WTC that day is somehow a government agent and 'in on it'.

They were duped.


Compared with Ace's Rube Goldberg approach, mine's a damn-sight simpler. However, you're welcome to come up with an even more elegant workflow if you can.

Ace Baker offered to go to a studio with Steve Wright and insert his cgi's into video as if it was going out live. Why don't you offer to go to a studio with Ace Baker and compare the two approaches to see which is the most elegant?
 
Its actually not the entire story in low-res and compressed-recompressed images. Its not just background 'flips' its adjacent pixels. This is why in the clip that was , and might still be, on the AE911T site, that Roker's face is a uniform , featureless, light brown.

Yet with this immediatly obvious fact the truthers still insist that, when it suits them, such video contains amazing detail.

A camera may or may not have both optical and electronic zoom. Optical zoom will not affect image quality much. The edges may distort, there may be some chroma abberation and there can be some 'fisheye' effect. If the camera also uses an electronic zoom though then this will effect that zoom by interpolating what the now extra pixels 'should' be. Blowing up such an image will give you what the electronics 'thinks' should be there, not what may actually have been the case.

Zooming in means that any small movement of the camera results in a wide swing of the picture. HOWEVER, zooming in with 'steadycam' also requires electronic processing that can affect image quality at the pixel level and again examining such a video at that level will NOT give you a true idea of what was there.

Jay.

EXACTLY. That is the biggest problem with the no planers using low res, highly zoomed images.

yet they want to try to take it as "proof" of something... it doesn't prove what they think it does... (just that they are idiotic for wanting to use LOW res, highly compressed, and a high zoom off of a helicoptoer)
 
I found some of the the wording used by the cameraman in chopper 5 a bit unusual. I's probably nothing but he said when speaking of the victims 'several thusand people disappeared off the face of the Earth'.
 
I found some of the the wording used by the cameraman in chopper 5 a bit unusual. I's probably nothing but he said when speaking of the victims 'several thusand people disappeared off the face of the Earth'.

What is the unusual part?
 
Are you Pomeroo or are you just heavily influenced by him?

Neither. I saw the second plane hit in person. Thus, I know for a fact that no-planers are insane morons. Not that being an eyewitness is necessary to know that.

Are you Ace Baker or are you just heavily influenced by him?
 
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The debunkers would like people to believe that it's because the images are low quality that the nose out looks like the nose in. The truth is, it's the compression artefacts that are causing the slight differences, and the hi-res originals might show that the two are identical.

No. The "debunkers" have been the ones to repeatedly have to point out that the image quality is low because of a myriad of reasons: repeated compression/decompression in the transmission/home presentation chain prior to recording, recording on a low-resolution consumer video format, digitising and manipulating the video from that format and finally uploading the manipulated footage to YouTube. All stages where resolution (and clarity) is lost.

That is why I earlier compared drawing any kind of conclusion from this particular example of that video to trying to draw accurate conclusions about things microscopic while peering through a microscope lense smeared with Vaseline.

You'd think the TV companies would want to release all the footage as part of the historical record. They could even make money selling the DVDs.

You're joking, right? Truthers are loath to pay for anything. They lob copyright video all around pell-mell with no consideration at all of compensating the copyright holder. Hell, look at how quick Loose Change stab #3 was uploaded to bittorrent sites. Within hours.

Broadcasters have no obligation to put every second of video out there just because you think they should. If you really want the footage, do what grown-ups do when they want something: they pay for it.

There really is no justification for sitting on it, and it's only reasonable to suppose there's something in the videos they don't want us to see.

If there was a business model that made sense to selling DVDs of raw footage, I'm sure they would have been available long ago. And here's an extra bit of intel for you about DVDs: they're compressed video too. More lost resolution!

It's unreasonable for you to decry someone else for not giving you something for nothing. Again, pool your pennies, no-planers! Put your money where your mouths are! Is that really too much to expect from you?





I suppose it is. :(
 
I think we can conclude that both Steve Wright and Anthony Lawson are unreliable as expert witnesses and could even be described as charlatans.

I think we can conclude that Steve Wright in one instance stepped outside his area of direct professional expertise. I don't know what Lawson's video expertise is but on the surface, his arguments appear sound.

One swallow does not a Spring make, bardamu.

The cameraman says he zoomed in after the pilot told him the plane was approaching. Call it argument from incredulity, but I wouldn't expect him to be concerned about checking focus for a possible zoom at a time like that. I'd expect him to point his camera at the plane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64lWubr31No

Would you be so kind as to transcribe (with time marks) where exactly Kai Simonsen said what you claim he said? Because I just listened to it and he didn't say that.

Nothing to do with dust clouds tapering into a point.

:jaw-dropp

What.......Does.......Newton's.......Third.......Law.......State?


Interesting that you don't deny Ace Baker's composites behave like the 9/11 videos.

I could make a pig do aerobatics, smash into the WTC and emerge as a roast turkey and have it appear ballistically consistent. Doesn't mean that the WTC was brought down by a flying pig.

The truth is, the 9/11 plane videos have more in common with Ace Baker's composites than they do with videos or pictures of any other plane crash in history.

Here's another clue for you. How many times have airliner crashes been caught on video? Precious few and even fewer on a broadcast-quality camera. Off the top of my head, the only one that comes to mind is UA 232. As far as video-mining footage from 9/11, the videos that you cite are the modern-day equivalent to the infinite monkey theorem.

Maybe you could explain why you think your vertical wipe would be more effective than Ace's luma key mask, bearing in mind that a chopper can't keep perfectly still.

I already did. If you don't get it, I can't really make it any more obvious to you. Even devolving into monosyllabic wording wouldn't help and would only lead to added annoyance on mine.

Reported BTW

Bully for him. He just can't explain how it is that everyone in NYC within view of the WTC that day is somehow a government agent and 'in on it'.

They were duped.

Uh huh! :boggled:

All umpteen million of 'em! :boggled:

Riiiiight! /Cosby

Ace Baker offered to go to a studio with Steve Wright and insert his cgi's into video as if it was going out live. Why don't you offer to go to a studio with Ace Baker and compare the two approaches to see which is the most elegant?

Because it would be using the same footage against which Ace would rehearse. That doesn't make it even remotely reflective of "live". To be anything like a meaningful test, new footage of a WTC model would need to be shot with the first and only exposure Ace gets to the footage being the realtime playback of that footage.

Anything else would be video splooging.

And BTW? The Avid would have to be a Media Composer running v7.0 (or earlier) software. Gotta keep things honest.
 
Are you Pomeroo or are you just heavily influenced by him?

I find the female comentators in the attached clip fascinating. Was that ....EXPLOSiON REALLY in the other building ? Why....you might be right. Maybe it IS in the other building. It's hard to tell isn't it ? And is that a new live ......picture of...??? ....maybe of a plane hitting ......another plane lol

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5973253241813970942#
 
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No-planers are insane morons.

Quite true.

But there is that one consistent theme that unites all Twoofers...

They could even make money selling the DVDs.

:rolleyes:

Tom

PS. ... and the paranoia, and the anger, and the resentment, and the unshakable conviction that they are the only moral or ethical people on the planet, and the disrespect, and the soap-opera, Manichaean us-versus-them fanaticism.

You know, it's just like dealing with a bunch of pissed off teenage boys.
I mean, EXACTLY like dealing with a bunch of pissed off teenage boys.

With a few mercenaries thrown in.
 
The debunkers would like people to believe that it's because the images are low quality that the nose out looks like the nose in. The truth is, it's the compression artefacts that are causing the slight differences, and the hi-res originals might show that the two are identical.
,,,and you know this how? Because you have seen hi-res orginals? I thought you said they were on VHS tape which is hardly hi-res in the first place.


Is the engine facing forwards or backwards as the cloud of dust and debris follows in its wake?

What the H difference would that make?


So if you fire a bullet into a sack of flour, some of the flour will come out of the other side in the shape of the bullet?

In fact if you look at hi-res video of such things the trailing dust does follow the path of the bullet. The bullet looks like a bullet, the dust looks like a dust trail, and that dust trail follows the wake air flow of the bullet which tapers behind the bullet. In the case of the engine the dust does not look like a bullet, the engine looks like an engine (a basically cylindical object) with dust behind it. Why are you now trying to say that the dust preceeded the engine out the building?

Check out "Flour shot 2" on this page and pause it as the bullet exits the right side of the screen. What I see is a thin trail of flour along the path of the bullet and an elliptical flour dust cloud elongated along the path of the bullet.
You will, I expect, notice that there is an 'explosion' of flour following this moment immediatly after the bullet's passage, but of course this is a case of a homogeneous full bag of flour, very much unlike the towers which were largely air filled. The pressure build up in the bag of flour caused by the bullet's shock wave is what produces that 'explosion' of flour. In denser fluids such as the many other high speed bullet videos of fruit or soda cans being hit, this pressure will have an even greater effect in that explosion like event, and because of the greater mass of the particles and the fact that those particles are bonded to each other to begin with, there will be less or no trailing effect seen with dry dust particulates.




I can think of several ways that only one destination for a video source could be affected but I doubt that bard wants to hear them.

But is there any evidence for them? Are any of them even plausible?

Plausible: It happens quite often that the wrong video source gets inadvertantly switched during a live, or live to tape, broadcast. If you watch network news you will see this occur often enough. ONE of the inputs on every switcher I have ever seen and/or worked with is 7.5 IRE black, another is colour bars.

Plausible: With an RF feed from a remote if that RF feed is interrupted due to loss of power in the receiver the signal goes black. Video processors may have a selection that goes to black rather than show a picture that is rolling or horizonatlly skewed in the case of RF interference between TX and RX. If there is RF interference of sufficient power the AGC of the reciever will drive the RF gain down as far as it can and no useful information will pass through the reciever, the reciever then outputs black or the switcher senses a loss of video and outputs black.\

Plausible: The Master Control automation had a switcher event that did not get cancelled when all of this began and when the TOD for that event came up it did what dumb computers do. It followed the last orders it had and switched to that source, at which source, of course, there was no video due to the day's events thus BLACK.

Yesterday we were taking a satellite feed from a national broadcaster. This was a clean feed of a movie (no logos, no commercials, there is ten seconds of black between segments) that we would broadcast later and although the audio was continuous, the video blanked out and went to black and came back a second or two later. This occured a few seconds before each break. (as I said the audio continued and the video came back, these were not the actual breaks) We called and were told that we were not the only station to alert them to the problem with this feed. A re-feed was set up and that went according to plan. YOU will never see that occur because this WAS NOT live. We did not get an explanation from Global TV as to why or how this happened and we don't ask. We don't need to know, we don't give a rat's south end why or how it happened, yet it is very similar to what you are complaining about with the Chopper video.
In fact something like this happens every week from once source or another, the video goes black, the audio goes silent, or only one track of audio is present, or a show segment gets sent twice with one segment missing (I.E. seg1, seg2, seg2, seg4, seg5,...) or the event gets missed completely. We never get an explanation for any of this, just a re-feed.
If its our screw-up we have to pay for a re-feed, if its on the other end the re-feed is free.

Any more questions?
 
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I read back through the thread, but I can't find where bardamu gives his explanation for the massive number of eye witnesses who saw the planes impact the WTC buildings. Did I miss it?
 
Twin,

"They were duped" He says. I still am kinda courious how the NWO got the noise of the engines to reverb through the city. Not quite sure about that one.

~M

PS, Bard, care to explain??
 
I'm curious as to how the NWO projected a hologram of a 767 flying into the WTC. Or perhaps they somehow managed to imprint the image directly into the brains of me and about a million other people? The NWO is pretty crafty and plus they have all that alien technology at Area 51...
 
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