Danny Jowenko - Manipulated by 9/11 Deniers

[triforcharity]

As Europe's top demolition expert has confirmed, loud noises and flashes are only secondary features of a standard controlled demolition. The primary feature of a standard controlled demolition is the sudden, (relatively) uniform and symmetrical fall of the roofline, brought about by removing the supporting structure one way or another at a lower level. In the case of WTC 7, the fall of the roofline was not just relatively uniform and symmetrical, it was so perfect that it seems more like a caricature of a controlled demolition than a real one.

Other than the Verinage (SP?) technique, and the cables attatched to the building technique, there really is only one other way to CD a building. That being explosives. How, if it was explosives, did NOBODY hear it??

I was there, and did not hear any HUGE, DEAFENING, explosions. Care to try to explain that?


Also, would you care to explain how, if WTC 7 was so "relatively uniform and symmetrical" as you claim, did it POSSIBLY hit the ROOF of Fitterman Hall??

Here's some pics of Fitterman Hall.

One column fails and because of that the other 80 columns all collapse together in the blink of an eyelid? Have the architects been prosecuted?

No, just as a deck of cards, take one card out, the whole pile fails. This is not a big conspiracy.

Column 79 failed, which transfered too much load onto the other core columns. Because it then became beyond their safe loading point, they failed too. Its not that hard to imagine.

OK, it's a deal. WTC 7 was demolished but the Twin Towers weren't. Now let's take it from there. Who demolished WTC 7?

A natural organic process called fire. Please feel free to google it.

 

[Miragememories]

Ahh..I see the denial continues.

WTC7 was not felled by burning office furnishings.

Get over it.

If you want to believe the NIST bs, just admit to yourselves that
the truth is more than you can handle and lies make it easier
to sleep at night.

MM

 

[Dave Rogers]

It's magic. Say Jowenko three times, and Miragememories appears.

WTC7 was not felled by burning office furnishings.

If you'd been comprehending the thread, you'd see that I asked bardamu to start from what you've just stipulated and construct a plausible scenario, based on the assumption that Danny Jowenko is always right. I've asked the same of you, and I'm still waiting.

Dave

 

[triforcharity]

Ahh..I see the denial continues.

WTC7 was not felled by burning office furnishings.

Get over it.

If you want to believe the NIST bs, just admit to yourselves that
the truth is more than you can handle and lies make it easier
to sleep at night.

MM

I tend to believe my own two eyes, and my knowledge of fire and its properties. I do not need NIST to tell me that steel framed buildings+UNFOUGHT FIRE+7 hours=Collapse.

 

[Thunder]

If you want to believe the NIST bs, just admit to yourselves that
the truth is more than you can handle and lies make it easier
to sleep at night.

Toronto huh? figures.

you wanna talk about truth? the truth is that you guys have failed to convince more then .001% of the American people of your silly ideas.

if 9-11 Truth was REALLY that significant and full of "truth", you all wouldn't feel the need to come to JREF to attack us.

 

[NutCracker]

Slight derail (but supporting your point, so not really) - I just realised truthers do exactly the same thing with someone else, a Professor Bruce Lawrence.

When he said the "fatty bin Laden" tape was "bogus" he was happily referred to us America's top bin Laden expert, leading academic expert on bin Laden, and so on. I never found anyone else who said this other than truthers, so I think they just created the title to boost his credibility.

But the interesting bit is while he says one tape is fake, his "statements from bin Laden" book includes another from 2004 where bin Laden claims responsibility for the attacks, so presumably Lawrence believes this is genuine. Now his great expertise is, well, inconvenient, so what he says here is largely ignored.

So, the truther's treatment of Jowenko isn't unique. It's just part of the cherry-picking self deception required if you're to maintain your "inside job" beliefs.

As I wrote in another thread some time ago, something similar applies to papers, opinions, arguments, analyses, hypotheses, factoids, facts and maybe some other stuff I forgot. xyz is a good X/true if it is consistent with the Truth. pqr is a bad X/false if it contradicts the Truth. X in {expert, opinion, paper, ...}. Simple machinery, really.

That why they do the hair-splitting and derailing: your argument/official story is wrong: so they scan it until they find something they can take issue with.. They found something "wrong," presto, proof that you are/the "os" is wrong.

Take for example the Szamboti "missing jolt" paper, or the Harrit "thermite chips". Both where riddled with methodological flaws. Any intellectually honest author would scratch his head wondering "did I made a mistake here?" over any single one of these flaws. But they came up with a conclusion that supported the Truth so the papers passed QC.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Have the architects been prosecuted?

I recall a similar argument being posted by AE911 which went something like this:

If WTC 7 failed from
a localized fire event, Inman asks, why didn’t the
owners and insurers sue the designers? “Either the
building design was criminally faulty, or other causes
not related to the structural design or fire” brought
down WTC 7, he says.

The answer is simple; the designers aren't liable. The building conformed to local codes at the time of its construction. They included the required passive and active fire protection systems and design measures as specified. If the trade center collapses didn't sever the water supplies that the sprinklers operated off of, and the fires not allowed to burn continually the building would have very likely survived. You're suggesting they should be punished for a series of events that could not have been anticipated? Amusing...

 

[Miragememories]

"...based on the assumption that Danny Jowenko is always right. I've asked the same of you, and I'm still waiting."

That is the crux of the problem.

You assume too much.

MM

 

[TexasJack]

As Europe's top demolition expert has confirmed, loud noises and flashes are only secondary features of a standard controlled demolition. The primary feature of a standard controlled demolition is the sudden, (relatively) uniform and symmetrical fall of the roofline, brought about by removing the supporting structure one way or another at a lower level. In the case of WTC 7, the fall of the roofline was not just relatively uniform and symmetrical, it was so perfect that it seems more like a caricature of a controlled demolition than a real one.

But they are necessary, aren't they? You can put them in any order you want. And they are absent aren't they? You can say a bullet is a secondary feature in killing someone, that the gun is the primary one, but without the bullet, you wouldn't have a dead person.

 

[Miragememories]

"if 9-11 Truth was REALLY that significant and full of "truth", you all wouldn't feel the need to come to JREF to attack us."

You are wrong.

That was not an attack.

Just a candid observation on a slow news day.

MM

 

[Dave Rogers]

That is the crux of the problem.

You assume too much.

I'm simply asking you to make sense. So far, you've declined.

Dave

 

[Grizzly Bear]

One column fails and because of that the other 80 columns all collapse together in the blink of an eyelid?

Oh and I know this has beaten beaten down like a pulp but you did originally address this to me. I'd think it a bit rude not to answer. I don't think 18 seconds characterizes the "blink of an eyelid."

The collapse shows a recognizable progression of failure starting with the east penthouse, and progressing downward and to the west inside the building. Once the interior lost it's integrity entirely, all of the loads transferred to the exterior walls which could not support it. So the rest of the building fell.

I suspect that had Jowenko been aware of this he would have perhaps thought differently. However an uninformed opinion from an expert is about as good as an opinion from somebody who's completely illiterate in the subject. This why an appeal to authority fails. If however he holds such an opinion after being informed, that just means he's wrong.... and humans are far from perfect beings.

 

[bill smith]

The firefighters and police who told everyone to move away because the building was coming down?

This is a real question; how old are you?

Hey Scott.Did you know that the fire dept. had actually told people directly that they were going to bring the building down ? (WTC7) You can't really be nuch clearer than that . And if they brought WTC7 down then they certainly brought the Twin Towers down and then all of 9/11 was an inside job. Listen to the end of this short video for the proof.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58h0LjdMry0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58h0LjdMry0

 

[Thunder]

Hey Scott.Did you know that the fire dept. had actually told people directly that they were going to bring the building down ? (WTC7) You can't really be nuch clearer than that . And if they brought WTC7 down then they certainly brought the Twin Towers down and then all of 9/11 was an inside job. Listen to the end of this video for the proof.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58h0LjdMry0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58h0LjdMry0

"the building is about to blow up"

this is referring to Stuyvesant High School...NOT WTC 7.

this was dealt with like 4 years ago Bill.

still think you guys have "won"?



people who have won, don't feel the need to convince others of their point of view.

yup, us Debunkers will be in cuffs any day now.

...any...day....now.

....any....day...now.

....any....day....now.

 

[bill smith]

"the building is about to blow up"

this is referring to Stuyvesant High School...NOT WTC 7.

this was dealt with like 4 years ago Bill.

still think you guys have "won"?



people who have won, don't feel the need to convince others of their point of view.

yup, us Debunkers will be in cuffs any day now.

...any...day....now.

....any....day...now.

....any....day....now.

There is always Zanzibar Parky. lol

 

[Thunder]

There is always Zanzibar Parky. lol

i guess..that is your way of avoiding my rebutal.

why should anyone take you seriously when you do that Bill?

you DO want people to take your seriously, right?

 

[triforcharity]

Hey Scott.Did you know that the fire dept. had actually told people directly that they were going to bring the building down ? (WTC7) You can't really be nuch clearer than that . And if they brought WTC7 down then they certainly brought the Twin Towers down and then all of 9/11 was an inside job. Listen to the end of this short video for the proof.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58h0LjdMry0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58h0LjdMry0

Edited by Gaspode: 

Edited for Rule 12

Saying that FDNY had to bring down 1&2, is accusing them of the murder of ~3000 people, including 343 of their own.

Edited by Gaspode: 

Edited for Rule 12

 

[Thunder]

Saying that FDNY had to bring down 1&2, is accusing them of the murder of ~3000 people, including 343 of their own.

huh...i didn't catch that. he accused the FDNY of killing 3,000 innocent people. including hundreds of their own.

back to ignore he goes. bye bye.

 

[bill smith]

i guess..that is your way of avoiding my rebutal.

why should anyone take you seriously when you do that Bill?

you DO want people to take your seriously, right?

Many people are predisposed NOT to believe in a conspiracy on 9/11. So I don't break my azz to convince anybody. I just put the bits and pieces I know up there for all to see. Those who are not moral cowards will evaluate. The moral cowards are more than happy to cling to the pathetic straws you debunkers hold out to them. Sad but true.

 

[DGM]

i guess..that is your way of avoiding my rebutal.

why should anyone take you seriously when you do that Bill?

you DO want people to take your seriously, right?

Are you kidding? That ship sailed last February.