Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

[six7s]

NOW we have over 200 evidence-free pages

 

[DOC]

...So far, not a single piece of "evidence" you have trotted out has even fit the proper definition of evidence, let alone pass a rudimentary application of rational thought...

Sure they have, read the first definition of evidence given by Answers.com that I gave in post 13. Many of the facts I've put out here can lead a rational person to the conclusion or judgement that the NT writers were telling the truth.

 

[pakeha]

Facts?
What facts, DOC?

 

[Filippo Lippi]

Surely, if we've learned one thing, it's that the more a stement is repeated the more true it becomes.

All I have to do is put this idea "out there" on 1300 posts IN THIS THREAD ALONE and it will be true.

ETA - you see that YRREG quote down there, that's wasn't true when YRREG posted it, but is now. How can it not be when it is out there for all to see on nearly 600 posts.

Make some nonsense true - stick it in your sig.

 

[Akhenaten]

Sure they have, read the first definition of evidence given by Answers.com that I gave in post 13. Many of the facts I've put out here can lead a rational person to the conclusion or judgement that the NT writers were telling the truth.

You have no facts. This is why nobody believes your 'evidence'.

 

[Lothian]

Sure they have, read the first definition of evidence given by Answers.com that I gave in post 13. Many of the facts I've put out here can lead a rational person to the conclusion or judgement that the NT writers were telling the truth.

Nearly 169,000 views, over 8000 posts and not one single person has come forward to say that your 'facts' have led them to the conclusion or judgement that the NT writers were telling the truth.

 

[DOC]

100% garbage. I can say that the Talmud "source" has been debunked, because it's been demonstrated conclusively that the "Yeshu" mentioned in the Talmud is not the same person as the Christian Jesus...

That's your opinion. And even the site you gave doesn't make that conclusion.

In fact the site you gave entitled:

The Jesus Narrative In The Talmud
By Gil Student

says this:

"Some historians note some similarities here between Yeshu and Jesus. Most notably, in one manuscript of the Talmud he is called Yeshu the Notzri which could be rendered (with only a little difficulty) Jesus the Nazarene."

http://www.angelfire.com/mt/talmud/jesusnarr.html

 

[Lothian]

That's your opinion. And even the site you gave doesn't make that conclusion.

In fact the site you gave entitled:

The Jesus Narrative In The Talmud
By Gil Student

says this:

"Some historians note some similarities here between Yeshu and Jesus. Most notably, in one manuscript of the Talmud he is called Yeshu the Notzri which could be rendered (with only a little difficulty) Jesus the Nazarene."

http://www.angelfire.com/mt/talmud/jesusnarr.html

He then immediately demolishes the proposition

Problems
1. Yeshu lived about a century before Jesus.
2. Only one of the approximately four distinct manuscripts available have the title HaNotzri (possibly, the Nazarene). None of the other manuscripts contain that title which make it suspect as a later interpolation, as medieval commentators suggest [cf. Menachem HaMeiri, Beit Habechirah, Sotah ad. loc.].
3. Notzri does not necessarily mean Nazarene. It is actually a biblical term (Jeremiah 4:16). While centuries later it was undoubtedly used to refer to Christians in the form of Notzrim or Netzarim, it could have been a term used to refer to many strong communities. The name "Ben Netzar" was used by the Talmud to refer to the famous chief of robbers Odenathus of Palmyra [see Marcus Jastrow's Dictionary p. 930]
4. The name Yeshu alone could have been common. We know that the name Jesus was common [see Collossians 4:11 and above].
5. Other than the name, nothing in the story fits anything we know about Jesus.

 

[Cleon]

That's your opinion. And even the site you gave doesn't make that conclusion.

Yes, it does.

In fact the site you gave entitled:

The Jesus Narrative In The Talmud
By Gil Student

says this:

"Some historians note some similarities here between Yeshu and Jesus. Most notably, in one manuscript of the Talmud he is called Yeshu the Notzri which could be rendered (with only a little difficulty) Jesus the Nazarene."

http://www.angelfire.com/mt/talmud/jesusnarr.html

See, DOC, you have to read the whole page, not just the parts that you like. He tries to present a balanced view, and you cherrypick the stuff that you think helps your case while you ignore the "problems" like:

2. Only one of the approximately four distinct manuscripts available have the title HaNotzri (possibly, the Nazarene). None of the other manuscripts contain that title which make it suspect as a later interpolation, as medieval commentators suggest [cf. Menachem HaMeiri, Beit Habechirah, Sotah ad. loc.].
3. Notzri does not necessarily mean Nazarene. It is actually a biblical term (Jeremiah 4:16). While centuries later it was undoubtedly used to refer to Christians in the form of Notzrim or Netzarim, it could have been a term used to refer to many strong communities. The name "Ben Netzar" was used by the Talmud to refer to the famous chief of robbers Odenathus of Palmyra [see Marcus Jastrow's Dictionary p. 930]

Do you really think such dishonesty will not go unnoticed?

And once again you run into the problem that even if Yeshu was the Christian Jesus, that would mean the NT isn't true. A self-defeating argument if there ever was one.

 

[calebprime]

Some Similarities between Jesus of Nazareth and Josh from New Jersey


-Both had a brother named Jim.

-Jesus was a carpenter. Josh was in the construction trade.

-Jesus predicted the end of the world. Josh complained about the decline of the neighborhood.

-Jesus tore down the Temple. Josh supervised the remodeling of several synagogues.

-Jesus died on the cross. Josh died in a car accident at a 'cross-shaped' intersection.


Uncanny, no?

 

[pakeha]

I suggest you reread that source, DOC.

We will quickly realize that there are great difficulties in stating that any of these texts refer to Jesus. We will see that a large number of historians and talmudists have addressed these issues and have concluded that either none of these passages refer to Jesus or that they refer to a proto-Jesus, whose life was later obfuscated by the theologically motivated rewriting of history.

So.
Now about those facts?

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Some Similarities between Jesus of Nazareth and Josh from New Jersey


-Both had a brother named Jim

-Jesus was a carpenter. Josh was in the construction trade.

-Jesus predicted the end of the world. Josh complained about the decline of the neighborhood.

-Jesus tore down the Temple. Josh supervised the remodeling of several synagogues.

-Jesus died on the cross. Josh died in a car accident at a 'cross-shaped' intersection.


Uncanny, no?

The Second Comming? Already? 2012 isn't for another 2 years, and I didn't see any of my neighbors/coworkers raptured...

 

[DOC]

Nearly 169,000 views, over 8000 posts and not one single person has come forward to say that your 'facts' have led them to the conclusion or judgement that the NT writers were telling the truth.

That doesn't mean they're not out there. And this thread could cause some to do additional study on this topic.

But if someone is a baby Christian (new to Christianity) or has just accepted Christ there is no way in the world I would recommend that they come into these threads. They should spend a couple of years reading and studying the bible first, and should also have some knowledge of the scientific theories that are out there about the beginning of the universe and possibly take a logic course. Geisler's book in post #1 speaks logically about many of the things we've been talking about and also gives easy to understand explanations of many scientific theories. And of course it talks a great deal about the bible.

 

[pakeha]

...Geisler's book in post #1 speaks logically about many of the things we've been talking about and also gives easy to understand explanations of many scientific theories. ...

Could you refresh my memory about some of those easy to understand explanations of many scientific theories, please?

 

[zooterkin]

They should spend a couple of years reading and studying the bible first, and should also have some knowledge of the scientific theories that are out there about the beginning of the universe and possibly take a logic course.

Will you be following this advice any time soon?

 

[Lothian]

Could you refresh my memory about some of those easy to understand explanations of many scientific theories, please?

The universe - Goddidit.
Gravity - Goddoesit.
Electricity - Goddoesit
Relativity- God is Jesus’s father and he is Jesus as well....perhaps relativity isn't that easy to understand.
Boyles law - God made the law first.

 

[DOC]

Yes, it does.

Why don't you show us exactly where the author makes that conclusion that Yeshu was not Jesus. And how he determined that the Yeshu in the Talmud who was executed on Passover eve lived 100 years before Jesus.

 

[joobz]

Sure they have, read the first definition of evidence given by Answers.com that I gave in post 13. Many of the facts I've put out here can lead a rational person to the conclusion or judgement that the NT writers were telling the truth.

And this is why I do not believe you ever took a logic course. Or if you did, you didn't do well in it. Or if you did well in it, you are simply a big liar.

 

[Lothian]

Why don't you show us exactly where the author makes that conclusion that Yeshu was not Jesus.

"Other than the name, nothing in the story fits anything we know about Jesus."

And how he determined that the Yeshu in the Talmud who was executed on Passover eve lived 100 years before Jesus.

"1. Yeshu lived about a century before Jesus."

 

[DOC]

And this is why I do not believe you ever took a logic course. Or if you did, you didn't do well in it. Or if you did well in it, you are simply a big liar.

Another unexplained opinion.