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Just what did Darwin say about homosexuality?

Did someone make death threats? That sucks. Have you reported it?

Report the implications? No. While some feel they have the right to extend things beyond what is apparent, I only deal with the direct. At the same time I'm not naive. If you put it out there, I'll catch on.
 
Only because you are being pathetic and prejudiced. If you took the time to read and understand what I am saying you wouldn't be as ignorant. Take the time to consider things in context, instead of being lazy and only reading what you want to read.

Of course, rather than responding with insults, you could just give your consistent criteria by which you judge something to be deviant or not.
 
I have done so. If you disagree, don't just assert it, demonstrate it.

OK. I said I was tired of homosexual behaviour being thrust in my face as normal. I was (but I'm seriously not any longer, that time has come and past) uncomfortable with anal sex. I just didn't get it. You want to love another dude, fine, but at the end of the day, how you express your love for one another seems a little convoluted. I get hetero sex, it makes sense. But if I was relegated to putting my penis in a womans rectum I'd be like "WTF?" This doesn't make sense. There's a perfectly good place to be doing this, it looks right, and hey it seems to be ready for me. Now if I was with a dude, and I wanted to share my love, I'd be pretty damned confused. Over here you got a straight dude, and he's got the Cadillac of places to put his thing, and then there's me, looking at not such a good place to put my penis. Are you following me here? Do you see what I'm saying? I'm not sure you are, because there have been a bunch of people posting here like the rectum is such a good place to insert your penis into. It isn't. It might be your thing and you might be totally into it, but trust me IT AIN'T THE REAL THING. I'm getting pretty tired of telling these people what the difference is, and why the vagina is the right place. If you don't get it, then you don't get it. The rest of us, WE GET IT.

And screw all of you, I don't care. There's white chocolate, and then there's chocolate. Nobody is going to convince me white chocolate is anywhere as good. IT AIN'T CHOCOLATE. There's milk and then there's varying shades of dark, but white ain't chocolate. It is something, and you might even like it more, but brother, it isn't chocolate. You might say that it has 75% sugar, and chocolate has 75% sugar so it must be the same thing, but it isn't. And you might say it melts in your mouth and not in your hands, but that doesn't mean it's chocolate. Hell, you might even dye it brown, but it's still not gonna be chocolate. I know what it is and semantics isn't going to change that.

Same goes with sex. I know what's "sex" and what isn't. Don't try to play semantics with me. I don't care what you say, or how mature you think you are, when you're doing it right, sex with a woman is the best thing ever! There is no rectum in the world that will ever compare to a vagina when it comes to sex. EVER.
 
Of course, rather than responding with insults, you could just give your consistent criteria by which you judge something to be deviant or not.

I should? Take a look, the experts haven't given any consistent criteria. It's a little more complex than that. I already gave a textbook definition of deviant that sources 4 different meanings. Maybe you need to use some common sense and logic instead of relying on Webster's or me to help you. :)
 
I already gave a textbook definition of deviant that sources 4 different meanings.

Yes, but you didn't say which one you use.

The word, like most, obviously has multiple definitions. However, when you use it to say any particular thing, you need to choose one. Something I tried to illustrate with my superman post. (ie. yes, it's fine that there is more than one definition, but you are either referring to one or another, not all at the same time, when you say that homosexuality is deviant.)
 
Thanks, I actually think this is a pretty good post.

I said I was tired of homosexual behaviour being thrust in my face as normal. I was (but I'm seriously not any longer, that time has come and past) uncomfortable with anal sex. I just didn't get it. You want to love another dude, fine, but at the end of the day, how you express your love for one another seems a little convoluted.
Just to be clear, I'm as unlikely to engage in anal sex as you. I just don't think that means there's something wrong with it.

I get hetero sex, it makes sense. But if I was relegated to putting my penis in a womans rectum I'd be like "WTF?" This doesn't make sense. There's a perfectly good place to be doing this, it looks right, and hey it seems to be ready for me.
That's cool, what you like is what you like. I certainly don't think you should want to get into anal sex just because other people like it.

Now if I was with a dude, and I wanted to share my love, I'd be pretty damned confused. Over here you got a straight dude, and he's got the Cadillac of places to put his thing, and then there's me, looking at not such a good place to put my penis. Are you following me here? Do you see what I'm saying? I'm not sure you are, because there have been a bunch of people posting here like the rectum is such a good place to insert your penis into. It isn't. It might be your thing and you might be totally into it, but trust me IT AIN'T THE REAL THING.
This is basically where we disagree. I'm not really interested in anal sex either, but clearly some people are. In their experience, the rectum is a good place to insert their penis. I have a friend, for instance, who, while he likes vaginal intercourse, can't get enough anal sex. He wants every girl he gets involved with to do it with him, and many do. He tells me that once they try it, they say it's a totally different experience.

I don't know, I'm not in to it. But it's very obvious they he enjoys it, and if enjoyment is what he wants, and putting his penis in a woman's rectum is what gives him enjoyment, then that is a good way for him to get enjoyment.

I'm getting pretty tired of telling these people what the difference is, and why the vagina is the right place. If you don't get it, then you don't get it. The rest of us, WE GET IT.
Yeah, sure, for people like me and you who enjoy vaginal intercourse, the vagina is the best place to put your penis. Cool. For others, it's not.
I don't see how you can argue that it's necessarily true for everyone that they get the most enjoyment out of vaginal intercourse.

And screw all of you, I don't care. There's white chocolate, and then there's chocolate. Nobody is going to convince me white chocolate is anywhere as good. IT AIN'T CHOCOLATE. There's milk and then there's varying shades of dark, but white ain't chocolate. It is something, and you might even like it more, but brother, it isn't chocolate. You might say that it has 75% sugar, and chocolate has 75% sugar so it must be the same thing, but it isn't. And you might say it melts in your mouth and not in your hands, but that doesn't mean it's chocolate. Hell, you might even dye it brown, but it's still not gonna be chocolate. I know what it is and semantics isn't going to change that.
That's fine, white chocolate's not chocolate. Cool. That doesn't mean it tastes bad, or that people who like it more than real chocolate are deviants.

Same goes with sex. I know what's "sex" and what isn't. Don't try to play semantics with me. I don't care what you say, or how mature you think you are, when you're doing it right, sex with a woman is the best thing ever! There is no rectum in the world that will ever compare to a vagina when it comes to sex. EVER.
So you think Clinton's "that wasn't sex" defense was correct?
Cool. Whatever, anal sex isn't sex, okay. But some people like it more than vaginal sex, so what's the problem?
You don't have to like it, I don't. But just because you don't like it doesn't mean that it's deviant..
 
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OK. I said I was tired of homosexual behaviour being thrust in my face as normal. I was (but I'm seriously not any longer, that time has come and past) uncomfortable with anal sex. I just didn't get it. You want to love another dude, fine, but at the end of the day, how you express your love for one another seems a little convoluted. I get hetero sex, it makes sense. But if I was relegated to putting my penis in a womans rectum I'd be like "WTF?" This doesn't make sense. There's a perfectly good place to be doing this, it looks right, and hey it seems to be ready for me. Now if I was with a dude, and I wanted to share my love, I'd be pretty damned confused. Over here you got a straight dude, and he's got the Cadillac of places to put his thing, and then there's me, looking at not such a good place to put my penis. Are you following me here? Do you see what I'm saying? I'm not sure you are, because there have been a bunch of people posting here like the rectum is such a good place to insert your penis into. It isn't. It might be your thing and you might be totally into it, but trust me IT AIN'T THE REAL THING. I'm getting pretty tired of telling these people what the difference is, and why the vagina is the right place. If you don't get it, then you don't get it. The rest of us, WE GET IT.

And screw all of you, I don't care. There's white chocolate, and then there's chocolate. Nobody is going to convince me white chocolate is anywhere as good. IT AIN'T CHOCOLATE. There's milk and then there's varying shades of dark, but white ain't chocolate. It is something, and you might even like it more, but brother, it isn't chocolate. You might say that it has 75% sugar, and chocolate has 75% sugar so it must be the same thing, but it isn't. And you might say it melts in your mouth and not in your hands, but that doesn't mean it's chocolate. Hell, you might even dye it brown, but it's still not gonna be chocolate. I know what it is and semantics isn't going to change that.

Same goes with sex. I know what's "sex" and what isn't. Don't try to play semantics with me. I don't care what you say, or how mature you think you are, when you're doing it right, sex with a woman is the best thing ever! There is no rectum in the world that will ever compare to a vagina when it comes to sex. EVER.

Man....I was sorta on your side, in that others were being too narrow in definitions, but with this giant bag of crazy you lost me. You are a narrow-minded, uptight freak.

...<snip>... Unfortunately, when you include the other species, your argument falls to the ground. Like jmcvann's pants in college. (wow, I'm sorry man... lame cheap shot. I don't know where that came from) :(

It's OK. College was fun. I was always trying to get out of my pants. Ahhhhh....good times....good times....
 
Yes, but you didn't say which one you use.

The word, like most, obviously has multiple definitions. However, when you use it to say any particular thing, you need to choose one. Something I tried to illustrate with my superman post. (ie. yes, it's fine that there is more than one definition, but you are either referring to one or another, not all at the same time, when you say that homosexuality is deviant.)

Which one I use? I'm not an expert. I'm just a guy trying to make people get over their prejudices and treat one another with a little decency.
 
But just because you don't like it doesn't mean that it's deviant..

I'm not sure that my not liking it defines it as deviant. Otherwise margarine and country music would be on the chopping block.

You've made some good points Robo. Thanks for not being a total dick about this.
 
They may be a minority, but that doesn't really mean anything does it?

Yes, because others seem to think they're a "huge majority."

Are female bonobos who engage in oral sex with each other deviant?

You jumped back to the buzzword already? After I was trying to avoid the word "deviance?" That was only your 2nd sentence!

In what way does that suggest that 3bodyproblem has been misunderstood?

Well, that particular sentence didn't, but I wrote many more.

I just don't see the relevance.

:eek: no way!

But just because you don't like it doesn't mean that it's deviant..

I think everyone can agree on that. Of course, just to play devil's advocate, I'll make one last attempt to explain what I think 3bodyproblem's point was (you're on your own with post #327, buddy.;) ever read Green Eggs and Ham?)....

Anyway, since I pretty much HAVE to address deviance, it's devil's advocate time: The definition of deviant says deviation from an accepted norm. When a society deems something "normal," society by implication deems anything else "deviant." If you look at the population of the planet (animal, human, whatever), homosexuals are a minority, and could therefore be considered not "normal."
That viewpoint is archaic and silly, but nonetheless prevalent (as we've seen in this thread). Deviance is in the eye of the beholder, and there's no way to solidly define it. Since society created it, society dictates it... and majority rules, friends.
[preach]All we can hope for is progress, because that's the only thing that will silence discrimination. ...and progress is made by educating, not calling people bigots, idiots and freaks.[/preach]
 
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Yes, because others seem to think they're a "huge majority."
Right, but whether they are a majority or minority (I don't know), what relevance does that have to the topic at hand?

You jumped back to the buzzword already? After I was trying to avoid the word "deviance?" That was only your 2nd sentence!
Yes, I jumped back to it, because I don't have any problem with the idea that homosexuality is not particularly common. It's suggesting that its deviant that I think is rather silly.
I didn't really have much of a problem with 3bodyproblem's first post about deviance, because from what he wrote there it seemed that by deviant he was only saying that homosexuality is uncommon. Which is fine: I found the choice of word odd, but whatever, I thought I knew what he meant.
Later, he made it clear that that wasn't what he meant, and that's when I started engaging him in this thread. Of course, I may have misread that, which is why I was hoping he'd say what he means exactly when he says homosexuality or whatever is deviant.

You said we are all misunderstanding him. But since the only issue I have with him is that he says something is deviant, if you say I've misunderstood that, I can't really agree or disagree with you about that without address deviance, can I?

Well, that particular sentence didn't, but I wrote many more.
So what point are you trying to make when you say that homosexuality is extremely uncommon in animals?

Anyway, since I pretty much HAVE to address deviance, it's devil's advocate time: The definition of deviant says deviation from an accepted norm. When a society deems something "normal," society by implication deems anything else "deviant." If you look at the population of the planet (animal, human, whatever), homosexuals are a minority, and could therefore be considered not "normal."
I can actually accept that, if that's the way the word is being used. But, if you say that homosexuality is deviant by that definition then so, as terry said way upthread, is being left-handed.

If someone wants to use the word that way, I don't care, but you can't consistently say that homosexuality is deviant because its uncommon and being left-handed is not.
If being left-handed is not deviant then there is some other criteria beyond the one given for determining whether or not homosexuality is deviant. I simply want to know what it is.

That viewpoint is archaic and silly, but nonetheless prevalent (as we've seen in this thread). Deviance is in the eye of the beholder, and there's no way to solidly define it. Since society created it, society dictates it... and majority rules, friends.
Actually you can solidly define deviance. In this case, the definition you're using has to do with social norms. To find out if something is deviant then, first we have to look at what those social norms are. Of course, by this definition deviance caries no moral value one way or the other, as by it civil rights leaders might have been considered deviant, for instance.
 
The problem that you have no consistent definition of deviant behavior which includes anal sex but does not also include other behaviors that you don't consider deviant.

Sure he does. It is just a set of pronouncements about what is and is not acceptable behavior, and not dirrived from some basic moral principle.

This is rather like many moral codes. It is arbitrary and inconsistent, but not really uncommon.
 
:eek: Really? Huge majority? Where did you get this information? You're going to have to redefine "sexual relations" and "huge majority" before you go spouting off some crazy statement like that. You're also going to have to provide a link of some sort...
Fact or fiction on Skeptics Guide to the universe.
Again, I have no problem with homosexuality or calling out people who are bigots, but I think you misunderstood what 3bodyproblem was initially trying to say.

He was clear when he refused to class redheads as inherently deviant.
 
Anyway, since I pretty much HAVE to address deviance, it's devil's advocate time: The definition of deviant says deviation from an accepted norm. When a society deems something "normal," society by implication deems anything else "deviant." If you look at the population of the planet (animal, human, whatever), homosexuals are a minority, and could therefore be considered not "normal."
That viewpoint is archaic and silly, but nonetheless prevalent (as we've seen in this thread). Deviance is in the eye of the beholder, and there's no way to solidly define it. Since society created it, society dictates it... and majority rules, friends.
[preach]All we can hope for is progress, because that's the only thing that will silence discrimination. ...and progress is made by educating, not calling people bigots, idiots and freaks.[/preach]

You are ignoring the pejorative part of calling someone a deviant.
 

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