PA President Mahmoud Abbas Quitting?

[WildCat]

Story:

By announcing he doesn't want another term in office, embattled Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas pushed the Mideast peace effort into unknown territory Thursday, opening the way to a succession battle that could play into the hands of his rival, the militant Hamas.

Uh-oh...

But it also could boost the prospects of a popular candidate who reportedly wants to run for the presidency

Good news?

from his Israeli prison cell.

Oh, but he's just a non-violent political prisoner, right?

The most attractive candidate to replace 74-year-old Abbas would likely be Marwan Barghouti, 49, who was jailed for life in 2002 for his involvement in fatal Palestinian attacks.

Does that mean "murders"?

Barghouti's incarceration could work both for and against him. It might be difficult for him to campaign from a jail cell, but his nomination could force his release.

Is this the Bizarro World?

 

[Thunder]

Or, the Palestinians may be about to go the one-state solution route.

 

[gtc]

Does that mean "murders"?

Why, yes it does.

Is this the Bizarro World?

Now does his leadership bid mean:

a) the Israelis are evil for locking up such an innocent and moderate man?
b) the Israelis are so evil that they have backed the poor innocent and moderate Palestinians into backing a militant for leader? Or
c) both at the same time.

I eagerly await being informed by the usual mob.

 

[Thunder]

since Israelis have officially honored their own terrorists and murderers, and made them Prime Ministers and other high govt. officials, I really don't see the issue with Barghouti becoming PA President.

 

[WildCat]

since Israelis have officially honored their own terrorists and murderers, and made them Prime Ministers and other high govt. officials, I really don't see the issue with Barghouti becoming PA President.

Wow.

 

[GreNME]

This could also just be a stunt by Abbas to get someone to "talk him into running" as he's done once before. Then again, he may mean it this time.

Additionally, I'm curious as to why the source thinks Marwan Barghouti is the more likely favored candidate, when his cousin Mustafa Barghouti has actually run before and has held an office in the PA already (Information Minister or something). Of course, Mustafa Barghouti's stated position that the Palestinian/Israeli conflict should be brought to an end through non-violence may not poll well in some parts of Palestine.

For those interested, Mustafa Barghouti did an interview on The Daily Show (Part 1 and Part 2) last week. I'm not exactly sure why they booked Anna Baltzer along with him (except to plug her book), and the conversation was a bit stilted and truncated in the version that made it to television (the links are the full interview, which isn't much better). I think the conversation should have gone longer, and I think I agreed more with Jon Stewart's take on things more than Barghouti or Baltzer (or the loudmouthed audience member).

 

[Thunder]

Wow.

its a fact. the guys who screwed up the Lavon Affair were honored in Israel and given awards. the guys from the Lehi who were executed by the British in Palestine were honored with their own medal.

http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/ArticleLayout/CdaArticlePrintPreview/1,2506,L-3065838,00.html#n

Lehi Ribbon, named after the terrorist group that murdered Folk Bernodette.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stern_gang#Service_ribbon


..did you think I was joking???

 

[mortimer]

since Israelis have officially honored their own terrorists and murderers, and made them Prime Ministers and other high govt. officials, I really don't see the issue with Barghouti becoming PA President.

Which Israeli PMs are murderers?

 

[WildCat]

its a fact. the guys who screwed up the Lavon Affair were honored in Israel and given awards.

From your link:

But Israeli hopes the attacks, which caused no casualties, would be blamed on local insurgents collapsed when the young Zionist bombers were caught and confessed at public trials. Two were hanged. The rest served jail terms and emigrated to Israel.

Bold emphasis mine.

the guys from the Lehi who were executed by the British in Palestine were honored with their own medal.

Try to stay in the present parky. You're bringing up stuff from 60 years ago.

..did you think I was joking???

No, just engaging in the only way you know how to argue. When the thread about the Egyptian cleric was posted, you went and dug up some crazy old Rabbi to "prove" that Israelis are just as bad. In this thread when discussing that apparently a favorite in the next PA elections is a convicted murderer currently in an Israeli jail you bring up something that Israel did 60 years ago to once again "prove" that they're just as bad, and so of course the PA should naturally want to elect an imprisoned convicted murderer in 2010.

 

[GreNME]

Which Israeli PMs are murderers?

Well, Sharon was a pretty hardcore hawk for most of his career. Counting that as murderer depends on point of view, though it's not very likely Sharon actually killed anyone himself anyway. Did Barghouti?

 

[ddt]

Which Israeli PMs are murderers?

Come on, you know better.

Begin was the head of Irgun in the late 1940s. He was behind the attack on the King David Hotel. Shamir was head of the Stern Gang. He was behind the assassination of Bernadotte. I picked the most famous cases, both groups have done much more killings.

They were in a same position as for what Barghouti has been convicted for: planning murders, not executing murders themselves. Would be kinda hard in Barghouti's case, as he has been convicted of planning suicide killings.

 

[mortimer]

Well, Sharon was a pretty hardcore hawk for most of his career. Counting that as murderer depends on point of view

No, no it doesn't. Murder has a specific legal definition. Was Sharon accused and convicted of murder? No? Then he's not a murderer.

 

[applecorped]

In this thread when discussing that apparently a favorite in the next PA elections is a convicted murderer currently in an Israeli jail you bring up something that Israel did 60 years ago to once again "prove" that they're just as bad, and so of course the PA should naturally want to elect an imprisoned convicted murderer in 2010.

But, maybe he would be really good.

 

[GreNME]

No, no it doesn't. Murder has a specific legal definition. Was Sharon accused and convicted of murder? No? Then he's not a murderer.

Don't alter my quote to leave out what basically states what you do and expect me to consider your response an intellectually honest answer to my statement.

 

[ddt]

Additionally, I'm curious as to why the source thinks Marwan Barghouti is the more likely favored candidate, when his cousin Mustafa Barghouti has actually run before and has held an office in the PA already (Information Minister or something). Of course, Mustafa Barghouti's stated position that the Palestinian/Israeli conflict should be brought to an end through non-violence may not poll well in some parts of Palestine.

Mustafa has run before, but he has always run as an independent. Even with Fatah's and Hamas' support faltering, I don't see much chance that an independent would clinch the vote.

Marwan had built up a lot of street cred before his arrest & conviction; enough for him to contemplate running against Abbas in the previous presidential election. His imprisonment only adds to his status as a martyr for the cause. And he is not tainted by being involved in the current political mess.

Of course, it's not unheard of that a convict returns from prison and becomes president. Here's Uri Avnery comparing Marwan Barghouti with Nelson Mandela.

 

[Thunder]

Which Israeli PMs are murderers?

Menachem Begin. Murdered both Arab and Jewish civilians in the Kind David Hotel.

The deaths of the British soldiers was an act of war. But the deaths of civilians was an act of terrorism and murder.

 

[Thunder]

its a fact. the guys who screwed up the Lavon Affair were honored in Israel and given awards. the guys from the Lehi who were executed by the British in Palestine were honored with their own medal.

http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/ArticleLayout/CdaArticlePrintPreview/1,2506,L-3065838,00.html#n

Lehi Ribbon, named after the terrorist group that murdered Folk Bernodette.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stern_gang#Service_ribbon


..did you think I was joking???

and the crowd goes silent...for they are busted.

 

[mortimer]

Menachem Begin. Murdered both Arab and Jewish civilians in the Kind David Hotel.

The deaths of the British soldiers was an act of war. But the deaths of civilians was an act of terrorism and murder.

Was he convicted?

 

[WildCat]

and the crowd goes silent...for they are busted.

parky must have everyone on ignore or something.

 

[GreNME]

Mustafa has run before, but he has always run as an independent. Even with Fatah's and Hamas' support faltering, I don't see much chance that an independent would clinch the vote.

I think I'd agree, and his positions place him at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to rallying support among those who feel more angry about the Israel/Palestine situation as well.

Marwan had built up a lot of street cred before his arrest & conviction; enough for him to contemplate running against Abbas in the previous presidential election. His imprisonment only adds to his status as a martyr for the cause. And he is not tainted by being involved in the current political mess.

And if he weren't quite possibly prone to corruption I think it might not be a bad thing if he got enough support. I don't hold that much faith in his not being at least as open to corruption as many other Fatah possibilities.

Of course, it's not unheard of that a convict returns from prison and becomes president. Here's Uri Avnery comparing Marwan Barghouti with Nelson Mandela.

Not unheard of, but definitely an outlier, don't you think?

Oh, and thanks for actually responding topically. I appreciate the feedback.