Blended gold-fiat $ monetary system?

jakesteele

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Blended gold-fiat $ monetary system?

Would it be possible to have a blended gold-fiat money standard that would work? For instance, say banks had to have 25 percent or 50 percent of their money in gold and have the rest fiat money like we have now. If so, how would it work? If not, why wouldn't it work?

The reason I ask is people like Ron Paul, a brilliant economist, wants the gold standard, but all the other politicians and bankers want things they way they are with the Fed.
 
Blended gold-fiat $ monetary system?

Would it be possible to have a blended gold-fiat money standard that would work? For instance, say banks had to have 25 percent or 50 percent of their money in gold and have the rest fiat money like we have now. If so, how would it work? If not, why wouldn't it work?

Gresham's law. Bad money drives out good.

You wouldn't want banks to have 25% of their money in gold anyway, since the banks aren't the ones controlling currency creation. That's done by the central bank via the money supply, so the central bank is the one that would need the precious metal reserve. Which, of course, is how it's done anyway (indeed, Ft. Knox is still the largest bullion reserve in the world). The last thing you want is to put several thousand dollars worth of gold into the hands of every credit union and savings and loan in America so that bank robbery becomes even more profitable than it already is.

So, basically, what you're describing is what we already have; the government has enough gold reserves to cover its needs and uses fiat money to control monetary supply -- and the problem as far as the Paulbots is concerned is that there's no way to distinguish "real" money from "fiat" money since they're all Federal Reserve Notes. So what you'd need to do is make Gold Notes as distinct from Federal Reserve Notes, and at this point you've created two competing currencies, which we know from historical experience doesn't work.

Have you considered the possibility that there is no middle ground between "sensible" and "stark raving bonkers," and therefore no reason to compromise on this particular issue? Ron Paul is nowhere near a "brilliant economist." He is wrong, to the point of crazy-stupid, and his followers likewise.
 
Various central banks have gold reserves. I believe this acts something like the system you describe.

There are also options available to people in most, if not all, Western countries.
1) Request payment in gold for contracts or employment or the like. This may not be legal everywhere and may not be enforceable everywhere; get advice and don't forget to pay taxes.
2) Request payment to the value of a fixed amount of gold but payable in the local currency at the market rate.
3) Accept payment in fiat currency but invest your savings in gold and/or various financial derivatives based on the price of resources.

...

Profit!
 
Ron Paul, a brilliant economist
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Gresham's law. Bad money drives out good.

I don't like that formulation of Gresham's law. I think it is more accurate to say that price ceilings tend to cause shortages and deterioration in quality of goods and services whenever the market price is higher than the price ceiling.

The bad money isn't bad due to any inherent quality of the money. The reason it's bad money is because the government is enforcing price controls; e.g. forcing people to accept clipped or debased gold coins at the same face value as they accept good gold coins. If there were no price controls there's no reason to think bad money wouldn't simply be discounted relative to good money and both stay in circulation.
 
I don't like that formulation of Gresham's law. I think it is more accurate to say that price ceilings tend to cause shortages and deterioration in quality of goods and services whenever the market price is higher than the price ceiling.

Except that Gresham's law is does not have anything do do with price ceilings, except in a few stupid Libertarian economics articles. Indeed, if you want to compare two different currencies that are free to vary against itself, you don't need to look at some hypothetical gold-based currency; just look at how American dollars work in some Ruritanian third-world country; American dollars do not circulate precisely because people want to hang onto them, even in an environment where US dollars used to trade freely in the marketplace.

It's not that the bad currency trades at a discount; its that the good currency doesn't trade at all because people who have the good currency are typically unwiling to spend it.

If all you want is a gold-based "currency" that can vary freely against the US-dollar,.... well, we've got that now. You can buy all the Maple Leafs you want. But what you can't do is turn around and use them at the local Safeway. You might even be able to find some clerk who wants Maple Leafs and is willing to accept them for goods; but you'll get your change back in US dollars....
 
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Indeed, if you want to compare two different currencies that are free to vary against itself, you don't need to look at some hypothetical gold-based currency; just look at how American dollars work in some Ruritanian third-world country;[...]

How would I get access to good data and rule out various forms of price fixing through exchange rate manipulation, tax policy etc. without taking a few months off of work?

American dollars do not circulate precisely because people want to hang onto them, even in an environment where US dollars used to trade freely in the marketplace.

In that situation the buyer would rather get rid of local currency, but the seller would rather recieve american dollars. American dollars should circulate to some extent precisely because people don't want to recieve local money.

The USD, GBP, ZAR, BWP and gold panned by hand from rivers and streams seems to have been used quite extensively in Zimbabwe during the worst of the inflation.
 
... who doesn't seem to have quite wrapped his mind around what this "money" thingy actually is.

But apart from that...

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=200&pictureid=1770[/qimg]


Go ahead and laugh at the guy who predicted this crisis

And instead let's blindly follow the Federal Reserve which totally did not bring on this crisis......
 
Care to give a specific reason why?

Here are some more specific reasons, from his own writings:

I have, for the past 35 years, expressed my grave concern for the future of America. The course we have taken over the past century has threatened our liberties, security and prosperity.

In other words, despite thirty-five years of relatively straightforward growth, including the longest peacetime expansion of the economy in US history, he's been predicting gloom and disaster. As timhau pointed out, this is like someone predicting snow tomorrow every day since mid-July and finally taking credit for it in December.

There are reasons to believe this coming crisis is different and bigger than any the world has ever experienced. Instead of using globalism in a positive fashion, it's been used to globalize all of the mistakes of the politicians, bureaucrats and central bankers. [...]The central banks of the world secretly collude to centrally plan the world economy. I'm convinced that agreements among central banks to “monetize” U.S. debt these past 15 years have existed, although secretly and out of the reach of any oversight of anyone – especially the U.S. Congress that doesn't care, or just flat doesn't understand.

He's a conspiracy 'tard.


The financial crisis, still in its early stages, is apparent to everyone: gasoline prices over $4 a gallon; skyrocketing education and medical-care costs; the collapse of the housing bubble; the bursting of the NASDAQ bubble; stock markets plunging; unemployment rising; massive underemployment; excessive government debt; and unmanageable personal debt. Little doubt exists as to whether we'll get stagflation.

Little doubt except among actual economists -- and among the real world. We're not seeing stagflation; in fact, we're not seeing inflation at all.

Of course, economists know why, because they understand what causes inflation, and it's not what Paul thinks causes it:

We cannot understand what we're facing without understanding fiat money and the long-developing dollar bubble.

There were several stages. From the inception of the Federal Reserve System in 1913 to 1933, the Central Bank established itself as the official dollar manager. By 1933, Americans could no longer own gold, thus removing restraint on the Federal Reserve to inflate for war and welfare.

Of course. Inflation is all a plot by the Fed. Riiiiiiiiight. :rolleyes:




Ironically in these past 35 years, we have benefited from this very flawed system. Because the world accepted dollars as if they were gold,

.... because gold is the only "real" source of money. It couldn't possibly that the world accepted dollars as if they were dollars, could it? :rolleyes: If you want to buy, for example, equity in American companies on the NYSE, you need to spend dollars to do it. Since American corporate equity has been an extremely good investment for the past thirty-five years, it makes sense that the world would accept dollars because they needed to invest them. we only had to counterfeit more dollars, spend them overseas (indirectly encouraging our jobs to go overseas as well) and enjoy unearned prosperity. Those who took our dollars and gave us goods and services were only too anxious to loan those dollars back to us. This allowed us to export our inflation and delay the consequences we now are starting to see.


Printing dollars over long periods of time may not immediately push prices up – yet in time it always does.

Really? Then why are we printing so much money NOW and not seeing inflation? Oh, yeah,.... because that's not how inflation works. Real economists talk about inflation as a combination of both money supply and money velocity -- since people aren't spending, the money we have isn't circulating fast enough to support current prices, and the only way to prevent a DEFLATIONARY spiral is to print more money. Which is what the Fed, oddly enough, has been doing for the past year, which is why we're seeing relatively stable prices. And they're starting to unwind the increase in money supply more or less right now, as the economy moves into recovery mode, to keep inflation under control as we come out, but they can't pull out too fast or we'll see the 1937 crash all over again. (Paul Krugman, a Nobel laureate in economics, has written extensively about this, if you want to see what a real economist has to say.)

But you can also see a bit of the "snow-in-July" rhetoric as well. Yes, there will eventually be inflation, I'm sure. I'm sure that sometime in the mid 2030's, there's be an unexpected bout of inflation beyond the capacity of the Fed to control, and he can say that he's been predicting inflation for twenty-five years.

Basically, he's a populist Gold Bug with the economic understanding of a codfish.
 
In other words, despite thirty-five years of relatively straightforward growth, including the longest peacetime expansion of the economy in US history, he's been predicting gloom and disaster. As timhau pointed out, this is like someone predicting snow tomorrow every day since mid-July and finally taking credit for it in December.

It's more like predicting that the chain smoker will eventually get lung cancer. The expansion of the US economy has occured because of the productive power of the American people which is the direct result of the freedoms we've enjoyed given our Bill of Rights and Constitution. It has occured in spite of our corrupt and onerous monetary system.

He's a conspiracy 'tard.

And yet, unknown foreigners and foreign central banks own some 28% of a monsterous $12,000,000,000,000 national debt, not counting unfunded liabilities, and with interest due. This isn't counting the $16,000,000,000,000 of private debt. The how and why seem irrelevant given the stark reality of the situation, but there is no doubt of a conspiracy.

Little doubt except among actual economists -- and among the real world. We're not seeing stagflation; in fact, we're not seeing inflation at all.

You're not seeing inflation, because you're ignorant and blind. Housing, equity, and debt bubbles are all the result of monetary inflation. The 95% reduction in purchasing power of the dollar since the inception of the Federal Reserve is the result of monetary inflation. The phony government inflation stats don't consider asset inflation, and yet, massive inflation we have.

Of course, economists know why, because they understand what causes inflation, and it's not what Paul thinks causes it:

Of course. Inflation is all a plot by the Fed. Riiiiiiiiight. :rolleyes:

The turnover rate of money (velocity) is constant in the long run, and is not the cause of long term inflation. The equilibrium price of the dollar is dependent on supply and demand, just like any other price. The Federal Reserve is responsible for the limitless supply of dollars, hence, the Federal Reserve is responsible for the massive inflation.
 
And if you want more proof that Ron Paul is bonkers, check out Tippit's posting history.

He's never been right in any substantive way about any subject whatsoever -- and he agrees with Ron Paul.
 
Go ahead and laugh at the guy who predicted this crisis
I'm equally impressed by Ron Paul predicting the crisis as by Lyndon Larouche, who also predicted the crisis.

You know what they say about broken clocks.
 
You're not seeing inflation, because you're ignorant and blind. Housing, equity, and debt bubbles are all the result of monetary inflation. The 95% reduction in purchasing power of the dollar since the inception of the Federal Reserve is the result of monetary inflation. The phony government inflation stats don't consider asset inflation, and yet, massive inflation we have.

Please, explain which economic indicators we should be looking at then, if not prices. This should be good.
 

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