Israel refuses to temporarily suspend all settlement construction

[Thunder]

I see, you fight a war, you win a war, you get the territory, and now you tell me that your people can't live there.

not if you don't annex the land first.

you see, Darth Rotor (may I call you Darth?), a country must first annex conquered territory before they can legally settle their civilian population onto it. why is this? because once you have officially annexed territory, then you must offer permanent residency or citizenship to the local population, and must apply YOUR laws to all aspects of life on the land, for all people.

Israel is very, very aware of this. But the problem is, they do NOT want to have to offer permanent residency, voting rights, etc, to 4 million Palestinians. They do NOT want to have to apply modern Israeli labor, civil, and other rights to the pesky 4 million Palestinians. They do NOT want to have to be responsible for updating and maintaining the infrastructure of those wretched 4 million Palestinians.

so, instead of annexing the West Bank, they instead confiscated hundreds of thousands of acres of privately owned land, for military purposes, which is perfectly legal. but then, under the cover of night (sometimes literally), they turned this land for "military purposes" into civilian settlements.

very sneaky, those Israelis are. very sneaky indeed. too bad the world found out. too bad more the a few righteous Israelis found these policies to be inhumane, immoral, unjust, and undemocratic.

they ruined everything..those damn liberal Israeli-Jews!!!

 

[WildCat]

maybe if Israel had coordinated the withdrawal with the Palestinians, things may have gone a little bit differently. There are zero guaruntees when you act unilitarerally. And Sharon counted on that very fact.

Sorry, this doesn't make any sense. Describe how the removal of all Jews from Gaza could have been done to the Palestinians satisfaction so that they didn't respond by electing terrorists as their government and rocket and mortar attacks on Israeli civilians.

and are you suggesting that the Goldstone call for an independent commission into Cast Lead is analagous to the 9-11 truthers wanting a nutty investigation into 9-11?

Because much like the "case" of the truthers, the allegations of Israeli war crimes crumble away when looked at critically.

Evidence, got any?

you are better then that, Wildcat. At least we think you are.

Who are "we"?

 

[Thunder]

Sorry, this doesn't make any sense.

you see, Wildcat, when two sides negotiate the elements of a withdrawal, paperwork is signed, agreemants are reached, and then both sides are held accountable for their actions.

but when you just do whatever YOU want to do, when YOU want to do it, how YOU want to do it, without consulting ANYONE else, you really have no right to whine and complain when things don't turn out the way you want.



but again, call me a CTist, but I believe the way things are now, is EXACTLY how Sharon wanted them.

how would you feel, right now, if the Gaza withdrawal was successful and peaceful, and Gaza was a good model of what happens when the IDF withdraws from Palestinian land?

 

[mortimer]

i would be happy to see the USA demand that Hamas be kicked out of office, if Israel agreed to lift all racist restrictions and regulations from the Knesset and removed all racist parties in the Knesset.

What does the USA have to do with it? The Palestinians elected Hamas, and only the Palestinians can remove them from power. Unless you are suggesting military action.

Have the Palestinians made *any* major concessions to further the peace process? Or is Israel expected to concede to every Palestinian demand, while the Palestinians do nothing, in order to further the process?

 

[Thunder]

Have the Palestinians made *any* major concessions to further the peace process? Or is Israel expected to concede to every Palestinian demand, while the Palestinians do nothing, in order to further the process?

The Palestinians have accepted the concept of a state within the West Bank and Gaza, and have suspended all military activities. what else would you like from them?

conversion to Judaism perhaps? promising to walk on hands and knees whenever they pass by an IDF officer?

 

[WildCat]

you see, Wildcat, when two sides negotiate the elements of a withdrawal, paperwork is signed, agreemants are reached, and then both sides are held accountable for their actions.

Wait, you are really claiming that the elimination of the Gaza settlements, long demanded by the Palestinians, was wrong because every detail wasn't worked out in advance? Didn't Oslo give the PA sovereignty over Gaza?

but when you just do whatever YOU want to do, when YOU want to do it, how YOU want to do it, without consulting ANYONE else, you really have no right to whine and complain when things don't turn out the way you want.

Oh, this is fascinating! Please back up your claim that the election of Hamas and the daily rocket and mortar attacks on Israel were the result of Palestinians being upset over the evacuation of the Israeli settlements in Gaza.

but again, call me a CTist, but I believe the way things are now, is EXACTLY how Sharon wanted them.

Man, that Sharon guy must be super-elite over at the NWO! Able to plan things just so!

 

[Thunder]

Man, that Sharon guy must be super-elite over at the NWO! Able to plan things just so!

i don't believe in the mythical "NWO". but i guess it sure would help your argument a whoooole lot, if I did.

 

[WildCat]

The Palestinians have accepted the concept of a state within the West Bank and Gaza, and have suspended all military activities. what else would you like from them?

conversion to Judaism perhaps? promising to walk on hands and knees whenever they pass by an IDF officer?

I'm pretty sure all that's required is recognition of Israel's right to exist and the cessation of attacks on Israel.

Is that too hard?

 

[WildCat]

i don't believe in the mythical "nwo". But i guess it sure would help your argument a whoooole lot, if i did.

Back up your claim parky:

oh, this is fascinating! Please back up your claim that the election of hamas and the daily rocket and mortar attacks on israel were the result of palestinians being upset over the evacuation of the israeli settlements in gaza.

 

[mortimer]

The Palestinians have accepted the concept of a state within the West Bank and Gaza, and have suspended all military activities. what else would you like from them?

I've already stated what I would like from them.

In addition, they should drop all preconditions to restarting the peace process.

 

[Darth Rotor]

you see, Darth Rotor (may I call you Darth?),

Yes, of course.

Thanks for once again spelling out some of the the loopholes and nonsense that attends the outcome of the 1967 Israeli Arab War. The state of belligerency has been over in the West Bank since 1973. How you attribute to the state of play there "war crime" when the war is over remains in the realm of semantics and double talk.

For those who want an example of a war crime, the UN has stopped enabling certain armed units in Congo who commit actual war crimes -- in this case, the slaughter of sixty civilians by a unit the UN was supporting as part of their mission to the Congo.

News item today, off the AP.

DR

 

[Thunder]

I'm pretty sure all that's required is recognition of Israel's right to exist and the cessation of attacks on Israel.

Is that too hard?

Um, the attacks have stopped. For quite some time now.

as far as recognizing Israel's right to exist, that took place at Oslo back in the 1990s. The Palestinians demand all of the West Bank and Gaza as their state. That means Israel will exist within the 1967 borders.

But well all know the Palestinians are gonna accept a 3% or so land exchange, in order to have a road or bridge from the WB to Gaza. this will allow Israel to annex a good number of the WB settlers into Israeli territory.

so what's the problem?

 

[WildCat]

Um, the attacks have stopped. For quite some time now.

Only because of the fence and Operation Cast Lead.

as far as recognizing Israel's right to exist, that took place at Oslo back in the 1990s. The Palestinians demand all of the West Bank and Gaza as their state. That means Israel will exist within the 1967 borders.

No, it didn't. The PA has never said Israel has a right to exist.

But well all know the Palestinians are gonna accept a 3% or so land exchange, in order to have a road or bridge from the WB to Gaza. this will allow Israel to annex a good number of the WB settlers into Israeli territory.

so what's the problem?

The problem is Palestinian insistence on a state of war with Israel until Israel is destroyed.

 

[Thunder]

No, it didn't. The PA has never said Israel has a right to exist.

well, if the new Palestinian state is ONLY in the West Bank and Gaza, what do you think will be to the west of the WB all the way to the Sea?


duhhhh!!! the silly games you people play.

has the Knesset ever formally accepted the creation of a Palestinian State in the West Bank and Gaza, by formal vote? no.

 

[WildCat]

well, if the new Palestinian state is ONLY in the West Bank and Gaza, what do you think will be to the west of the WB all the way to the Sea?


duhhhh!!! the silly games you people play.

Was this actually your response to what was quoted, or did you leave something out which would have made this make sense somehow?

has the Knesset ever formally accepted the creation of a Palestinian State in the West Bank and Gaza, by formal vote? no.

The sounds of goalposts shifting...

 

[Thunder]

The sounds of goalposts shifting...

has the Israeli government formally and unequivecally recognized the right of the Palestinian people to their own state in the West Bank and Gaza?

yes...or no?

 

[WildCat]

has the Israeli government formally and unequivecally recognized the right of the Palestinian people to their own state in the West Bank and Gaza?

yes...or no?

Have you stopped beating your wife?

Do you see what these questions have in common parky?