Moderated What's wrong with porn?

[Southwind17]

Really? People don't choose to do porn when they have a choice to do something else?

I'll give you an anecdote: I knew a woman several years ago who was working in porn. No one incredibly famous or anything. She was working in porn despite having a PhD in physics. She actively chose to do porn. She enjoyed the job, and liked the fact that it paid better than any job she could have gotten with her PhD.

Point of order: I doubt there are any reliable studies that demonstrate a correaltion between having a PhD in physics and having "career choices". Continue ..

I'll give you another anecdote: That same several years ago, I posed for pornographic pictures. It was amateur porn, not professional porn, and the pictures were distributed (published, if you will) through various internet means. I did it because I wanted to. And I did it for free, because I enjoyed doing it. There was no "chosing" between doing porn and doing something else. I did the porn in addition to the other things that were going on in my life. And it hasn't adversely affected my life, even years later. I have no qualms about admitting that I've participated in making porn to anyone, even my own child.

I know more than a few people with similar stories.

There's a huge difference between "posing for pornographic pictures" in an amateur context and the sort of porn I described earlier (just thought I'd mention that in the context of the OP).

 

[Southwind17]

BTW, when I met my wife she took a dim view of porn. She's fine with it now. I never pushed her. Occasionaly I'd ask if she would like to see a movie and I'd joke from time to time. She warmed to the idea. Which is cool.

And how "hot" is she now? (rhetorical!)

 

[Southwind17]

Not to mention that I find it interesting that these arguments are only ever made about the female porn stars, and nothing whatsoever is mentioned about the male ones. Screams to me of that "women are delicate little flowers that cannot possibly defend themselves or know what the right course of action is so men must protect them" kind of sexism.

It is downright insulting to even insinuate that just because I am a woman I'm not smart enough, or strong enough, or generally capable enough, to avoid being abused or exploited.

Just out of interest (and I'm guessing JFrankA is probably best placed to respond), how much could a porn "actor" expect to be paid compared to a porn "actress" in a like-for-like shoot (ideally the same single shoot for the most level playing field)?

ETA: Sorry - hadn't read Post #866 when responding. Perhaps JFrankA can validate?

 

[tesscaline]

Ok, well then you certainly know more than I do about it and I stand corrected. I certainly didnt intend to demean anyone.
My concern was with people that have few options being taken advantage of. I may have a poor opinion of how the porn industry works.

I do understand you didn't intend to demean anyone.

The bolded section isn't a problem with the porn industry in particular. It's a problem with people in general. A sociological problem even.

And most people have a poor understanding of the porn industry, thus, their opinion follows suit. Unfortunately it's fairly normal for humans to think poorly of what they do not understand.

I think so too. My personal opinion is that it shouldn't matter. That there isn't anything wrong with it ideally. But I don't think that is how (our) society see it and that drives it underground to become a bad thing for people to be involved in. We live in a more puritan society then I thnk we know.

You're right. It shouldn't matter. And yes, I share the belief that the US is much more puritanical than most people realize. But there's probably even more to it than just that. Sexism, classism, and just basic plain old ignorance, are some of the things I can think of just off the top of my head that probably play into the matter.

Look at all the misconceptions going on in this thread alone. There's a lot more to battle than just puritanical beliefs.

 

[Southwind17]

The irony is that the men generaly receive about half the pay as the women and while they may enjoy it, timing requires that you can't enjoy it too much or too soon. (the money shot)

Indeed.

Honestly? I think you two are being extremely naive to see irony in the pay differential. Either that or you're being deliberately conservative in expressing your views here for fear of beratement. I think there's a much simpler explanation.

 

[not daSkeptic]

I think there's a much simpler explanation.

Supply and demand is pretty simple.

 

[Southwind17]

Supply and demand is pretty simple.

Please ... feel free to expand! Seriously.

 

[tesscaline]

Point of order: I doubt there are any reliable studies that demonstrate a correaltion between having a PhD in physics and having "career choices". Continue ..

Arguing from incredulity. Doubting something does not make it untrue.

There's a huge difference between "posing for pornographic pictures" in an amateur context and the sort of porn I described earlier (just thought I'd mention that in the context of the OP).

Special pleading (amateur pictures are DIFFERENT). Strawman (I wasn't responding to anything you said, therefore your definitions don't matter).

Then there's the fact that you're forming an opinion without having enough information to do so. I didn't say what I was doing when I posed. For all you know, they could have been still pictures of anything on the list you posted earlier. And no, I will not be divulging the content of such pictures here. I do not feel it is appropriate (especially since some people have already objected to use of explicit language in this thread), nor do I feel it would be within the terms of the MA for me to do so.

As to "the context of the OP" -- your moving goalposts around after the original post of the thread is not my problem. Nor does this thread belong to you. Amateur porn is still porn and thus still on topic no matter how hard you try to argue against it.

 

[not daSkeptic]

Please ... feel free to expand! Seriously.

As I understand it, the majority of the demand for the product comes from heterosexual men.

 

[tesscaline]

Honestly? I think you two are being extremely naive to see irony in the pay differential. Either that or you're being deliberately conservative in expressing your views here for fear of beratement. I think there's a much simpler explanation.

I don't think you understand what's being found ironic.

 

[Southwind17]

Doubting something does not make it untrue.

Did I claim it did? You do know what "doubt" means, right?

Special pleading (amateur pictures are DIFFERENT). Strawman (I wasn't responding to anything you said, therefore your definitions don't matter).

Then there's the fact that you're forming an opinion without having enough information to do so. I didn't say what I was doing when I posed. For all you know, they could have been still pictures of anything on the list you posted earlier. And no, I will not be divulging the content of such pictures here. I do not feel it is appropriate (especially since some people have already objected to use of explicit language in this thread), nor do I feel it would be within the terms of the MA for me to do so.

I'm tempted to write: "Enough said", but honestly, I think you're bluffing. I guess we'll never know. My opinion? If you're going to cite an example to support a view or claim be prepared to reveal the full details of the example to the extent they're relevant, otherwise the example doesn't really serve as a meaningful ... well, "example", does it now?!

As to "the context of the OP" -- your moving goalposts around after the original post of the thread is not my problem. Nor does this thread belong to you. Amateur porn is still porn and thus still on topic no matter how hard you try to argue against it.

I'm sorry. I thought "stay on topic" essentially meant per the OP, when the OP is so specific. My mistake.

 

[Southwind17]

I don't think you understand what's being found ironic.

Well, it seems to be this:

The irony is that the men generaly receive about half the pay as the women and while they may enjoy it, timing requires that you can't enjoy it too much or too soon. (the money shot)

Am I wrong?

 

[arthwollipot]

I'm sorry. I thought "stay on topic" essentially meant per the OP, when the OP is so specific. My mistake.

Hmm. Specific. Right:

The title says it all. I'm interested to hear people's views, particularly justifications for/against, including details of any scientific and empirical evidence against porn.

Who's first?

Very specific.

 

[Southwind17]

As I understand it, the majority of the demand for the product comes from heterosexual men.

Sorry - you've lost me. What does this have to do with male/female porn "acting" pay differential?

 

[tesscaline]

I'm tempted to write: "Enough said", but honestly, I think you're bluffing. I guess we'll never know. My opinion? If you're going to cite an example to support a view or claim be prepared to reveal the full details of the example to the extent they're relevant, otherwise the example doesn't really serve as a meaningful ... well, "example", does it now?!

You're arguing from incredulity, and again making assumptions based upon incomplete data.

I'm sorry. I thought "stay on topic" essentially meant per the OP, when the OP is so specific. My mistake.

Your OP says:

The title says it all. I'm interested to hear people's views, particularly justifications for/against, including details of any scientific and empirical evidence against porn.

Who's first?

That's really quite vague, and I really don't see how you can declare any form of pornography (amateur or not) off topic by citing that OP (Original Post).

 

[Marius vanderLubbe]

I'm not really sure what point Ben is making but I've seen interviews and documentaries with the likes of Jenna Jameson, Traci Lords, Nina Hartley and many others.

What is the point of the question?

I'm not all together sure, but it's made me feel like a quick few rounds with the Boxing Bishop, I can tell you. (Locks door)

 

[Southwind17]

Hmm. Specific. Right:
Very specific.

"What's wrong with porn?"

The title says it all.

Is that clearer?

 

[Southwind17]

You're arguing from incredulity, and again making assumptions based upon incomplete data.

And why is that "data" "incomplete" pray tell?

 

[arthwollipot]

"What's wrong with porn?"


Is that clearer?

No, not really. Why do you exclude amateur porn from consideration? The OP just says "porn" but later on you seem to redefine it as being just scat or humiliation, and when people bring up the idea of people doing porn voluntarily, you define it out of consideration.

I'm just as confused about your motivations as I was two hundred posts ago.

 

[tesscaline]

And why is that "data" "incomplete" pray tell?

Irrelevant.