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Why do (some) astrologers ask for the exact time of birth?

Wow! This thread has been busy!

I've skimmed the b*ckl*g... maybe I've missed something new... has Astro Teacher actually made a specific claim... or is it all (still) nothing more than vague alluding?
 
Astro Teacher said:
Yes, and this is my preferred method of practicing natal astrology. The client is a human being, with their own dreams, wishes, and backgrounds, and they are real people, with feelings, who want the best for themselves, and their loved ones.

[...]

The answers are not in the heavens, they are within yourself. You have the power. The stars only incline, they do not compel. You have free will. The whole point of astrological forecasting is to guide you through transits, like a ship that has to be guided by the motion of the stars to a destination. Think of it more along these lines. The transits show the weather, the climate ahead, and you can then prepare yourself for that in advance. This knowledge is power - and is yours to use for your own happiness.
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Interesting. So how does the astrologer know that the advice on transits that he is offering does not come from the astrologer? It is possible for anyone to hear a person out, and then give advice. An astrologer might even do this unconsciously by finding something in a reading that conforms to the astrologer's own opinion.

How do you know that your interpretation of an astrological reading differs from what you might offer without it?
 
Astro Teacher said:
Listen, all that is fine and good, but you have to understand that the world you "think" that you see is more complex and filled with energy than you are aware of. If you "think" too much, based on your own intellectualism, you are going to miss a lot, yet, there must be a structure, a discipline that is not rooted in conventional science, but in unconventional science, it is there that you will make in-roads.

Those who fail to take in cognitive basis are most likely those who chose not to study this path - you know, everyone is not a brain surgeon, okay? However, there are geniuses among us who all have their own talents and skills and they can be janitors, short-order cooks, etc., and have knowledge of future events and be accurate.

There are many others throughout history who are born with amazing powers: of musical ability, engineering, art, etc. How are you to test how they got these abilities? How can you test how Mozart received his genius as a child? He was not taught music. He just knew.

I know I can do what I do because I have done it. I mean, come on, let's not over-intellectualize things to the point of absurdity. I've tested what I know myself - and that is enough for me. It cannot be tested conventionally, not with the current tools available to conventional science that are designed to measure only that which is material.

I keep saying that there is an invisible world around you everywhere that is just as real as that keyboard you type on, but do not think that that keyboard tells you what is real and what is not.

The energies in the very room you sit in fluctuates with magnetic energies that rise and fall from the transits of the planets, and the flows from the Sun and phases of the Moon, and they affect you as sure as the feel of your own fingers on your keyboard.

Whether you "believe" in "this or that" is beyond the point - it exists nonetheless and you had better deal with it. We all have free will, but be under no doubt that there are consequences of our actions, and that you and I are on a very long leash because the laws of the universe isn't going to change because you want to believe or test something based on your own intellectualized preconceptions.

The world is a lot stranger than you may know.
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This is not an answer to my question. It's just a bunch of unsupported assertions.
 
Astro Teacher said:
Of course they do, since meteorology came from natural astrology. This was the first use of astrology by humanity, for obvious reasons, we all have to eat.
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Fantastic. Where might I find documentation on astrology being used as an accurate tool of weather forecasting in the last few years?
 
Astro Teacher said:
Science does this all the time. Never touched a black hole, have they? But, they know it to exist. Never seen a magnetic ray, yes, but it is known to exist.
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False analogy. They can be detected and their effects can be measured.

Apparent contradictions appear in nature, all around you, how can you not see this, not know this?
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Because it's not true.

Astro Teacher said:
Yes, and this is my preferred method of practicing natal astrology. The client is a human being, with their own dreams, wishes, and backgrounds, and they are real people, with feelings, who want the best for themselves, and their loved ones.

I am vicious on "astrologers" who play with people's dreams and hopes with computer-generated personality reports. There is a strict standard here: never, ever screw around with a client's privacy, nor with their hopes and wishes for themselves. This is sacred ground and must be respected.

Think of it like a weather report. Knowing the conditions ahead will help you to better prepare for favorable and unfavorable conditions.

The answers are not in the heavens, they are within yourself. You have the power. The stars only incline, they do not compel. You have free will. The whole point of astrological forecasting is to guide you through transits, like a ship that has to be guided by the motion of the stars to a destination. Think of it more along these lines. The transits show the weather, the climate ahead, and you can then prepare yourself for that in advance. This knowledge is power - and is yours to use for your own happiness.
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Hey, look, AT dodged a question! Never seen that before.
 
bookitty said:
Fantastic. Where might I find documentation on astrology being used as an accurate tool of weather forecasting in the last few years?
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Please, bookitty, do pay attention to EVERY utterance of the uber-authoritative Astro Teacher

Astro Teacher said:
I suggest you first study the subject of Astrology since this subject has copious amounts of millions of serious texts written over many centuries from nearly all cultures.
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:p​
 
bookitty said:
Fantastic. Where might I find documentation on astrology being used as an accurate tool of weather forecasting in the last few years?
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There are good books on the subject. You will find them in the works of Claudius Ptolemy, the father of astronomy and geometry who was an astrologer.
 
bookitty said:
Interesting. So how does the astrologer know that the advice on transits that he is offering does not come from the astrologer? It is possible for anyone to hear a person out, and then give advice. An astrologer might even do this unconsciously by finding something in a reading that conforms to the astrologer's own opinion.

How do you know that your interpretation of an astrological reading differs from what you might offer without it?
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Sad, but true, but you will get that in any profession. It is all a part of being a human being. We put the power of nuclear missiles into the hands of people who conform to their own opinions, do we not? We do the same with those who fly airplanes, perform surgeries, etc, etc. We take our chances every day of life on this planet. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it does not. That's history and life on this planet.
 
Astro Teacher said:
There are good books on the subject. You will find them in the works of Claudius Ptolemy, the father of astronomy and geometry who was an astrologer.
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Thank you, but I was looking for something a tad more recent, say in the last few years. Judging from the weather channel, weather forecasting isn't always exact. It seems that any additional help or information would be welcome. Can you please direct me to some documentation that shows how astrology is being used today to forecast the weather.
 
Astro Teacher said:
Sad, but true, but you will get that in any profession. It is all a part of being a human being. We put the power of nuclear missiles into the hands of people who conform to their own opinions, do we not? We do the same with those who fly airplanes, perform surgeries, etc, etc. We take our chances every day of life on this planet. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it does not. That's history and life on this planet.
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I am not sure that is applicable. A doctor for example, relies on many different tools to come to a diagnosis. A pilot can use his tools to fly in low viability. Both of these professions can point to the reading from the tools to show how they arrived at a conclusion. A doctor might say "I thought that it was pneumonia but the X-ray shows a tumor on the lung." The pilot might have thought he was flying north but his instruments show that he is flying northwest.

How does an astrologer use his tools to arrive at a conclusion that is different from his/her opinion?
 
Pixel42 said:
This is not an answer to my question. It's just a bunch of unsupported assertions.
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I think the problem is that he/she is accustomed to considering and discussing the "how" and isn't grokking your much more narrow (and entirely appropriate) focus on the "if." FWIW, I don't think it's deliberate obfuscation.
 
Astro Teacher said:
That's your opinion and your own bunch of belief.
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I have not stated any beliefs. I have merely asked questions and pointed out that you have not answered them.

Don't like scary answers? Then don't ask scary questions.
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I see nothing scary about my questions. Why would you find such questions scary? They are questions you should have been asking yourself all your life.

You did not give a scary answer, in fact you did not give an answer at all. You just made a bunch of unsupported assertions.
 
bookitty said:
I am not sure that is applicable. A doctor for example, relies on many different tools to come to a diagnosis. A pilot can use his tools to fly in low viability. Both of these professions can point to the reading from the tools to show how they arrived at a conclusion. A doctor might say "I thought that it was pneumonia but the X-ray shows a tumor on the lung." The pilot might have thought he was flying north but his instruments show that he is flying northwest.

How does an astrologer use his tools to arrive at a conclusion that is different from his/her opinion?
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Astrologers have their tools too. We use mathematics to read, invent, and direct. Remember, astrologers invented the tools of astronomy, meteorology, chemistry, geography, including medicine. Many of the drugs now known to humanity were discovered by astrologers who founded chemistry and homeopathy while the forerunners of conventional medicine were still practicing horrific procedures, not washing their hands because the astrologers could not show them the "germs" that were out there while these conventional doctors inserted their dirty hands into the bodies of patients. Read the history. It's all there.
 
Pixel42 said:
I have not stated any beliefs. I have merely asked questions and pointed out that you have not answered them.


I see nothing scary about my questions. Why would you find such questions scary? They are questions you should have been asking yourself all your life.

You did not give a scary answer, in fact you did not give an answer at all. You just made a bunch of unsupported assertions.
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Take my answers as I give them. If you think they are "unsupported" I see that as just one more of the skeptic's ruse to not do her own reading, her own thinking. You can read, can you not? There are excellent books out there for you at the touch of a botton. You don't even have to use your free library card anymore if you don't want to. I am not the openly person to state these things. Read for yourself. Think for yourself.

Support for anyone's assertions is a belief construct to either soothe your own "beliefs" or to support your own predetermined unsupported conclusions. Being a skeptic for skeptic's sake is a waste of life and certainly of brain cells. If you ask such questions, do not then demand anyone to support them. See for yourself. The knowledge is there Pixel, you've got some great astrological texts in the U.K. Go visit one sometime - start at Cambridge. See for yourself and "unsupport" those "assertions" you will find in Britain.
 
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Astro Teacher said:
Astrologers have their tools too. We use mathematics to read, invent, and direct. Remember, astrologers invented the tools of astronomy, meteorology, chemistry, geography, including medicine. Many of the drugs now known to humanity were discovered by astrologers who founded chemistry and homeopathy while the forerunners of conventional medicine were still practicing horrific procedures, not washing their hands because the astrologers could not show them the "germs" that were out there while these conventional doctors inserted their dirty hands into the bodies of patients. Read the history. It's all there.
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Perhaps I phrased that badly. When you use the tools of astronomy, you are given information. How do you know which information comes from astrology and which comes from you? (Not a general astrologer but specifically you.)
 
Why ask for the exact time of birth? Simple, to sound like you have a real product to sell.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
Astro Teacher said:
Astrologers have their tools too. We use mathematics to read, invent, and direct. Remember, astrologers invented the tools of astronomy, meteorology, chemistry, geography, including medicine. Many of the drugs now known to humanity were discovered by astrologers who founded chemistry and homeopathy while the forerunners of conventional medicine were still practicing horrific procedures, not washing their hands because the astrologers could not show them the "germs" that were out there while these conventional doctors inserted their dirty hands into the bodies of patients. Read the history. It's all there.
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LOLWUT?


Astro Teacher said:
You can read, can you not? There are excellent books out there for you at the touch of a botton.
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You can use a spell-checker, can you not?

Why no! You can't. How embarrassing.
 
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