Why do (some) astrologers ask for the exact time of birth?

[Nonpareil]

I can't see your posts Pure_Argent. I have you on ignore just so that you know.

Hey! My first Ignore!

Though I must say, if you put me on there because you can't deal with what I said, you're going to get very lonely here very fast.

And I would like an answer as to what makes your brand of astrology different from the rest. Can somebody maybe quote this post so that he sees me asking this question? I think it's perfectly reasonable.

 

[Nonpareil]

There is nothing "contradictory" here. It is all in your own mind.

 

[Rasmus]

Hey! My first Ignore!

Though I must say, if you put me on there because you can't deal with what I said, you're going to get very lonely here very fast.

And I would like an answer as to what makes your brand of astrology different from the rest. Can somebody maybe quote this post so that he sees me asking this question? I think it's perfectly reasonable.

Sure thing.

 

[Astro Teacher]

Pure Argent, I would love to debate with you as you sometimes appear to have decent critical thinking ability, and can think for yourself, which I like.

However, you are not an expert in this field of astrology, and your comments support this fact, so, until you are able to construct your comments without rudeness and obvious bias, I will continue to have you on ignore.

Anyone who reposts your comments to me, except to resolve your lack of mature tone, will also be put on my ignore list.

It is your choice to discuss this subject with clarity and class as the majority of people on this thread do. One can be skeptical, even critical, without resorting to such antics that clutter such threads for others. Thanks.

 

[Pixel42]

My knowledge and belief comes from my own experiences as an astrologer. That's it. I do not care if anyone believes me or not - it is enough for me that I know what I know and I am just fine with that too.

But I'm still struggling to understand how you know what you know. You can only know something about the world by observation. That is true of all the examples you gave, e.g. I know if someone loves me by observing their behaviour. If they tell me they hate me, or try to kill me, that would suggest that my belief that they love me is mistaken. What have you observed that has led you to believe that your brand of astrology works? What could you observe, different to what you actually observe, that would suggest to you that your belief that it works is mistaken?

 

[Astro Teacher]

But I'm still struggling to understand how you know what you know. You can only know something about the world by observation. That is true of all the examples you gave, e.g. I know if someone loves me by observing their behaviour. If they tell me they hate me, or try to kill me, that would suggest that my belief that they love me is mistaken. What have you observed that has led you to believe that your brand of astrology works? What could you observe, different to what you actually observe, that would suggest to you that your belief that it works is mistaken?

That is a good question. I don't know exactly how I can do this. It is something I was born with, but I chose to start from a scientific standpoint. I avoided the fluffy nuts who loved to pontificate on pop astrology from a surface-feeder perspective. Astrology is a very depth-oriented science, and is not for simpletons.

When I was young, I could see when people would lie and I remembered how I felt when this happened. I retained this because of studying applied astrology. It is important to understand that as many things that are visible in the world there is also that many things that are invisible in the world.

I do know that a balance between the right and left sides of the brain is essential to forecasting the future. One must use both sides equally and not use one half of the brain's hemisphere over the other hemisphere. This is called the X-factor and allows one to see what is just "there" without making any initial determinations or intellectually-designed judgments based on ego, bias, etc. I also see in four dimensions. It was a gradual process, and took some time because of the intense variable mathematics involved in reading the motions of spherical bodies.

Women are closer to being able to achieve this than men because of the make up of the female brain; however, males can do this as well if learned early enough before the neural net of their own brain's matrix becomes set.

If this neural net becomes "shocked" in any way... severe car accidents, violent encounters, even being struck by lightening and living through it, the fixed neural net opens again, and a person may be able to see in more dimensions. However, a discipline is required, a structure, to keep out the unwanted influences and effects of time displacement when looking into time.

The problem with females in this area comes from over-emotionalism and lack of focus, and the problems with males comes from over-intellectualism and too much focus. A balance must be struck, and maintained within a discipline.

If one can learn to balance both the emotion and the mind, a first step can be taken to think outside the box and to just see what is there without involving the barriers of the intellectually-built human ego.

You will see scary things of the future, things I often do not talk about... possibilities that come from history, and present times. From what I've seen, the past, present and future often work as one, and time moves like a corkscrew. I read the variable mathematics of these motions in time through astronomical means.

I was not introduced to the metaphysical end of astrology first, that came later, I was first introduced to the physical side of astrology. Before one can do algebra, one has to first learn addition and subtraction, etc. It is step-by-step process that takes many years to learn. Experience and practice of any science is important. The natural world is a great teacher.

I learned astrology from those who were expert in many other fields, including conventional astronomy. Observational skills are important - mainly of the natural world and astronomical transits. After years of noting correlations, and study, one comes to know things that are to come by the movements of the celestial bodies over spans of time.

You notice over time by study of serious astrology that your perspective changes... it starts out almost unnoticed, but once you leave aside your ego, your preconceptions, and allow things to just flow, but within the structure of applied astrology, its discipline, you come to know of future events. It is not easy to know some of these things, and human folly becomes even more apparent. However, even if I "think" I know something, I like to check what I think I know with the mathematics of applied astrology.

Astrology is a interdisciplinary science, and is quite suited to deal with many areas of life. Those who think in a multifaceted way do best, but the structure, and discipline must always be there to keep things in check. That is why I use Astrology as the priori-science that it always has been.

 

[Pixel42]

That is a good question.

Thank you. It's actually one several people have asked you on both of the threads to which you are currently contributing.

I don't know exactly how I can do this.

I didn't ask you how you can do it. I'm really not interested in the how at this stage. I asked you how you know you can do it, i.e. what specific observations/successful predictions/whatever else it was that convinced you.

After years of noting correlations, and study, one comes to know things that are to come by the movements of the celestial bodies over spans of time.

This is the only comment in your post that seems to address my question. It suggests that things you knew were to come to pass as a result of your study of the celestial bodies actually did come to pass, significantly more often that would be expected by chance. Now we're finally getting somewhere.

I'm sure you are aware that many people inadvertantly fool themselves into thinking that predictions made by various methods (including the types of astrology you yourself have criticised) are more accurate than they expect them to be when in fact they are not, because they fail to take into account certain cognitive biases. So next question: what steps did you take to eliminate these biases, specifically confirmation bias and the Forer Effect, in your own case?

 

[Nonpareil]

Pure Argent, I would love to debate with you as you sometimes appear to have decent critical thinking ability, and can think for yourself, which I like.

Thanks much.

However, you are not an expert in this field of astrology, and your comments support this fact, so, until you are able to construct your comments without rudeness and obvious bias, I will continue to have you on ignore.

I see no reason to hold back on being snarky to someone who has previously called the posters here childish and rude because they don't take your claims at face value. Rudeness sets me off. So sue me.

Anyone who reposts your comments to me, except to resolve your lack of mature tone, will also be put on my ignore list.

Can't say that I'm really surprised.

It is your choice to discuss this subject with clarity and class as the majority of people on this thread do. One can be skeptical, even critical, without resorting to such antics that clutter such threads for others. Thanks.

I may throw in jokes and quips into my posts, but they are quite well-supported by the scientific facts and logic that is also present. For example, you still have not addressed the fact that distance DOES make a huge difference for electromagnetic force, as it obeys the inverse-square law, nor have you attempted to show the difference between your brand of astrology and that of those you claim to be "charlatans".

That is a good question. I don't know exactly how I can do this. It is something I was born with, but I chose to start from a scientific standpoint. I avoided the fluffy nuts who loved to pontificate on pop astrology from a surface-feeder perspective. Astrology is a very depth-oriented science, and is not for simpletons.

I do know that a balance between the right and left sides of the brain is essential to forecasting the future. One must use both sides equally and not use one half of the brain's hemisphere over the other hemisphere. This is called the X-factor and allows one to see what is just "there" without making any initial determinations or intellectually-designed judgments based on ego, bias, etc. I also see in four dimensions. It was a gradual process, and took some time because of the intense variable mathematics involved in reading the motions of spherical bodies.

I was not introduced to the metaphysical end of astrology first, that came later, I was first introduced to the physical side of astrology. Before one can do algebra, one has to first learn addition and subtraction, etc. It is step-by-step process that takes many years to learn. Experience and practice of any science is important. The natural world is a great teacher.

I learned astrology from those who were expert in many other fields, including conventional astronomy. Observational skills are important - mainly of the natural world and astronomical transits. After years of noting correlations, and study, one comes to know things that are to come by the movements of the celestial bodies over spans of time.

You notice over time by study of serious astrology that your perspective changes... it starts out almost unnoticed, but once you leave aside your ego, your preconceptions, and allow things to just flow, but within the structure of applied astrology, its discipline, you come to know of future events. It is not easy to know some of these things, and human folly becomes even more apparent. However, even if I "think" I know something, I like to check what I think I know with the mathematics of applied astrology.

Astrology is a interdisciplinary science, and is quite suited to deal with many areas of life. Those who think in a multifaceted way do best, but the structure, and discipline must always be there to keep things in check. That is why I use Astrology as the priori-science that it always has been.

Let me see if I've got this right: he's claiming that he can see the future?

 

[Dave Rogers]

There is nothing "contradictory" here. It is all in your own mind.

So, astrology must have merit because Franklin 'knew' it had merit, but rocks can still fall from the sky notwithstanding that Franklin 'knew' they could not, and this is not a contradiction? It seems rather an obvious one to me.

Dave

 

[Myriad]

For instance, in weather forecasting, which was the first use of applied astrology, you will find that celestial configurations throughout different geographic regions lead to various kinds of climate and weather. This has been seen for many centuries, and there is proven data to show the accuracy of astrological weather forecasting, mainly long-term climate and weather forecasting.

I'm not sure why this claim has been so heavily criticized in this thread. I myself have noticed that when the sun is farther from the zenith at noon, the weather is usually much colder than average, and that periods of darkness regularly occur when the celestial configuration places the sun on the opposite side of the earth from me.

I find it quite plausible that electromagnetic influences could be responsible.

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[Astro Teacher]

Thank you. It's actually one several people have asked you on both of the threads to which you are currently contributing.


I didn't ask you how you can do it. I'm really not interested in the how at this stage. I asked you how you know you can do it, i.e. what specific observations/successful predictions/whatever else it was that convinced you.


This is the only comment in your post that seems to address my question. It suggests that things you knew were to come to pass as a result of your study of the celestial bodies actually did come to pass, significantly more often that would be expected by chance. Now we're finally getting somewhere.

I'm sure you are aware that many people inadvertantly fool themselves into thinking that predictions made by various methods (including the types of astrology you yourself have criticised) are more accurate than they expect them to be when in fact they are not, because they fail to take into account certain cognitive biases. So next question: what steps did you take to eliminate these biases, specifically confirmation bias and the Forer Effect, in your own case?

Listen, all that is fine and good, but you have to understand that the world you "think" that you see is more complex and filled with energy than you are aware of. If you "think" too much, based on your own intellectualism, you are going to miss a lot, yet, there must be a structure, a discipline that is not rooted in conventional science, but in unconventional science, it is there that you will make in-roads.

Those who fail to take in cognitive basis are most likely those who chose not to study this path - you know, everyone is not a brain surgeon, okay? However, there are geniuses among us who all have their own talents and skills and they can be janitors, short-order cooks, etc., and have knowledge of future events and be accurate.

There are many others throughout history who are born with amazing powers: of musical ability, engineering, art, etc. How are you to test how they got these abilities? How can you test how Mozart received his genius as a child? He was not taught music. He just knew.

I know I can do what I do because I have done it. I mean, come on, let's not over-intellectualize things to the point of absurdity. I've tested what I know myself - and that is enough for me. It cannot be tested conventionally, not with the current tools available to conventional science that are designed to measure only that which is material.

I keep saying that there is an invisible world around you everywhere that is just as real as that keyboard you type on, but do not think that that keyboard tells you what is real and what is not.

The energies in the very room you sit in fluctuates with magnetic energies that rise and fall from the transits of the planets, and the flows from the Sun and phases of the Moon, and they affect you as sure as the feel of your own fingers on your keyboard.

Whether you "believe" in "this or that" is beyond the point - it exists nonetheless and you had better deal with it. We all have free will, but be under no doubt that there are consequences of our actions, and that you and I are on a very long leash because the laws of the universe isn't going to change because you want to believe or test something based on your own intellectualized preconceptions.

The world is a lot stranger than you may know.

 

[Nonpareil]

Listen, all that is fine and good, but you have to understand that the world you "think" that you see is more complex and filled with energy than you are aware of. If you "think" too much, based on your own intellectualism, you are going to miss a lot, yet, there must be a structure, a discipline that is not rooted in conventional science, but in unconventional science, it is there that you will make in-roads.

Bare assertion.

Those who fail to take in cognitive basis are most likely those who chose not to study this path - you know, everyone is not a brain surgeon, okay? However, there are geniuses among us who all their own talents and skills and they can be janitors, short-order cooks, etc., and have knowledge of future events and be accurate.

Bare assertion.

I know I can do it because I have done it. Does that answer your question? I mean, come on, let's not over-intellectualize things to the point of absurdity.

No need to over-intellectualize to reach the point of absurdity, buddy, you've been there for about 20 posts now.

I've tested what I know myself - and that is enough for me.

Yes, because you have confirmation bias.

It cannot be tested conventionally, not with the current tools available in science that are designed to measure only that which is material. I keep saying that there is an invisiable world around you everywhere that is just as real as that keyboard you type on, but do not think that that keyboard tells you what is real and what is not.

Yes, and I keep telling you that you are surrounded by invisible drunken leprechauns, one of whom is beating you with an incorporeal chair.

The energies in the very room you sit in fluctuates with magnetic energies that rise and fall from the transits of the planets, and the flows from the Sun and phases of the Moon, and they affect you as sure as the feel of your own fingers on your keyboard.

No. See my plentiful above references to the formula for calculating the electromagnetic force.

Whether you "believe" in "this or that" is beyond the point - it exists nonetheless and you had better deal with it. We all have free will, but be under no doubt that there are consequences of our actions, and that you and I are on a very long lease because the laws of the universe isn't going to change because you want to believe something based on your own intellectualized preconceptions.

The world is a lot stranger than you may know.

Proof? Or are you just going to keep rambling?

 

[Dave Rogers]

If you "think" too much, based on your own intellectualism, you are going to miss a lot, yet, there must be a structure, a discipline that is not rooted in conventional science, but in unconventional science, it is there that you will make in-roads.

Why must there be a discipline rooted in unconventional science? And what is 'unconventional' science, anyway? Science is very simple: we observe, we correlate observations, we make predictions based on those correlations and we determine whether the predictions are correct. If we don't do that, we're simply making blind guesses about the world; and if we do, what we are doing is science.

The energies in the very room you sit in fluctuates with magnetic energies that rise and fall from the transits of the planets, and the flows from the Sun and phases of the Moon, and they affect you as sure as the feel of your own fingers on your keyboard.

And we can observe those energies, as you call them (I prefer 'fields', but each to his own), and we know their magnitudes and their directions and their effects - and they are negligible. If the sole province of astrology is magnetic field analysis, then there is nothing to discuss; it's a solved problem. But the same is true of anything measurable. So you propose a realm that, in principle, cannot be measured; but if it cannot be measured, how can it affect us? And if it can affect us, how can it be unmeasurable, when we can measure it simply by observing its effect upon us?

Everything you say is shot through with this fundamental contradiction. Anything either can, in principle, be measured and quantified, or it's irrelevant; you're demanding that there be something that is neither.

Dave

 

[Cainkane1]

I ofetn wonder how astrologers explain the fact that twins born on the same day often have different degrees of success or failure in their lives.

 

[bookitty]

Astro Teacher, if I am reading your posts correctly, you are saying that astrology can offer the same sort of information or insight that one might get from a life coach or counselor. Except that instead of relying on the the practitioner's perceptions, the answers come from the heavens.

If this is the case, can you provide a simple explanation in layman's terms for how this might work?

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

I ofetn wonder how astrologers explain the fact that twins born on the same day often have different degrees of success or failure in their lives.

Because they are not actually born at the same time and we know how important / unimportant this is in astrological fantasy.

 

[Astro Teacher]

Why must there be a discipline rooted in unconventional science? And what is 'unconventional' science, anyway? Science is very simple: we observe, we correlate observations, we make predictions based on those correlations and we determine whether the predictions are correct. If we don't do that, we're simply making blind guesses about the world; and if we do, what we are doing is science.



And we can observe those energies, as you call them (I prefer 'fields', but each to his own), and we know their magnitudes and their directions and their effects - and they are negligible. If the sole province of astrology is magnetic field analysis, then there is nothing to discuss; it's a solved problem. But the same is true of anything measurable. So you propose a realm that, in principle, cannot be measured; but if it cannot be measured, how can it affect us? And if it can affect us, how can it be unmeasurable, when we can measure it simply by observing its effect upon us?

Everything you say is shot through with this fundamental contradiction. Anything either can, in principle, be measured and quantified, or it's irrelevant; you're demanding that there be something that is neither.

Dave

Science does this all the time. Never touched a black hole, have they? But, they know it to exist. Never seen a magnetic ray, yes, but it is known to exist.

Apparent contradictions appear in nature, all around you, how can you not see this, not know this?

 

[bookitty]

Science does this all the time. Never touched a black hole, have they? But, they know it to exist. Never seen a magnetic ray, yes, but it is known to exist.

Apparent contradictions appear in nature, all around you, how can you not see this, not know this?

Speaking of science, have you seen Gord's question regarding weather forecasting? I am eagerly awaiting your answer. It seems to be an area in which astrology and science could overlap neatly.

 

[Astro Teacher]

Astro Teacher, if I am reading your posts correctly, you are saying that astrology can offer the same sort of information or insight that one might get from a life coach or counselor. Except that instead of relying on the the practitioner's perceptions, the answers come from the heavens.

If this is the case, can you provide a simple explanation in layman's terms for how this might work?

Yes, and this is my preferred method of practicing natal astrology. The client is a human being, with their own dreams, wishes, and backgrounds, and they are real people, with feelings, who want the best for themselves, and their loved ones.

I am vicious on "astrologers" who play with people's dreams and hopes with computer-generated personality reports. There is a strict standard here: never, ever screw around with a client's privacy, nor with their hopes and wishes for themselves. This is sacred ground and must be respected.

Think of it like a weather report. Knowing the conditions ahead will help you to better prepare for favorable and unfavorable conditions.

The answers are not in the heavens, they are within yourself. You have the power. The stars only incline, they do not compel. You have free will. The whole point of astrological forecasting is to guide you through transits, like a ship that has to be guided by the motion of the stars to a destination. Think of it more along these lines. The transits show the weather, the climate ahead, and you can then prepare yourself for that in advance. This knowledge is power - and is yours to use for your own happiness.

 

[Astro Teacher]

Speaking of science, have you seen Gord's question regarding weather forecasting? I am eagerly awaiting your answer. It seems to be an area in which astrology and science could overlap neatly.

Of course they do, since meteorology came from natural astrology. This was the first use of astrology by humanity, for obvious reasons, we all have to eat.